An engineering history of the Manhattan Project

This Hacker News discussion centers on the book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes and related topics concerning the Manhattan Project and nuclear weapons development.

The "Making of the Atomic Bomb" as a Comprehensive Work

A central theme is the exceptional depth and breadth of Richard Rhodes' "The Making of the Atomic Bomb," with many users highly recommending it for its detailed historical account.

• "One of the best books I’ve ever read is The Making of the Atomic Bomb Book by Richard Rhodes. If you want an extremely in-depth history of the science and people behind Manhattan project, I would highly recommend reading it." - cactusfrog
• "Seconded. I tell people it's several books in one, all of which are brilliantly executed: Biographies of the preeminent scientists of the 20th century... A history of late 19th and early 20th century physics and chemistry... A history of World War I and World War II... A history of the engineering and operation of the Manhattan Project. Highly, highly recommended for this audience." - bruckie

However, the book's detailed scientific and historical content can be a lot for some readers, and differing interests mean parts might be skipped.

• "This was the only parts of the book I skimmed over / skipped. While interesting, many of them go back to their parents and childhood upbringing which, again are interesting, but being more interested in the science/engineering I would skip ahead until their story was more relevant." - pests

Companion and Alternative Reading Recommendations

Beyond Rhodes' work, participants shared other significant books and resources covering aspects of nuclear history and science.

• "Dark Sun" by Richard Rhodes: A follow-up to "The Making of the Atomic Bomb," focusing on fusion bomb development. It's noted for its political focus and character analysis.
  • "Also, if you liked that, try his follow on, 'Dark Sun', focusing on the fusion bomb development after the war. There is probably a much greater focus on politics, especially involving Teller." - foo70
  • "He was definitely trying to impart more of a lesson with Dark Sun" - LABerthier
  • "Dark Sun is not bad, but it is definitely overshadowed by Rhodes' magnum opus." - sklargh
• "The Los Alamos Primer" by Serber: Recommended for a more technical, yet accessible, overview of the project's foundational science as presented to new scientists.
  • "If you want a book that is more technical and really gives a sense of what the scope of the project was, I'd highly recommend The Los Alamos Primer by Serber which was the intro lecture given to scientists when they would arrive. Serber did a great job of annotating the lecture to explain in more accessible detail each section. A quick read, and well worth it." - wanderingmoose
• "Critical Assembly: A Technical History of Los Alamos during the Oppenheimer Years (1943-45)": Suggested for those seeking deeper technical details about Project Y.
  • "...if you really want to know the technical details about Manhattan/project Y, get a copy of Critical Assembly: A Technical History of Los Alamos during the Oppenheimer Years (1943-45)... It is quite accessible." - beezle
• Todd Rider's "Forgotten Creators": A free, extensive online work discussed for its analysis of German fusion advances during WWII and its potential implications for nuclear development.
  • "Recommended reading: Forgotten Creators by Todd Rider. Free and online, over 4,000 pages including references and important appendices, so one has to navigate to the chapter / section of interest." - ricksunny
• "Igniting the Light Elements": A thesis recommended for a comprehensive look at early thermonuclear history before increased classification.
  • "I recommend Igniting the Light Elements for people who want a keystone piece about the early thermonuclear. https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/10596 - it's an extensive Thesis on the history of early thermonuclear period." - sklargh
• "The Alchemy of Air": Mentioned as a delightful read about the Haber-Bosch process, appealing to those who enjoy a mix of history and science.
  • "Of late, I've been reading The Alchemy of Air which revolves around Haber-Bosch process and it's been a delight so far. Highly recommend if you love a mix of non-fiction, history & science." - sbmthakur
• "Hanford and the Bomb: An oral history of World War II" by S.L. Sanger: Recommended, but noted as being out of print and expensive on the used market.
  • "I really enjoyed S.L. Sanger’s book “Hanford and the Bomb: An oral history of World War II” - but it’s out of print now and used ones? Sheesh!" - pontifk8r

Personal Connections and Record Keeping

Several users shared personal connections to the Manhattan Project through family members, leading to discussions about the nature of their work and the challenges of finding historical records.

• One user's grandfather worked on the project in NYC, describing the work as isolated problem-solving without broader context.
  • "He said that it was far less Hollywood-esque than many would imagine -- at least for him. He was just given math/engineering problems and was asked to solve them with no context. He never knew what he was truly working on, why he was working on these problems, etc.. The work was pretty isolating and contact was with others was pretty minimal." - hirvi74
• Another user's grandfather was a technician in Los Alamos, with his wife (the user's grandmother) also working as a typist and secretary there, humorously holding a higher security clearance.
  • "She teased him the rest of their lives, because as the secretary to someone more important than a lowly technician, she had technically had a higher security clearance than he ever did!" - theresistor
• Discussions arose about where to find records, with suggestions including the National Atomic Testing Museum in Las Vegas and the Atomic Heritage Foundation.
  • "The National Atomic Testing Museum in Las Vegas had a room full of file cabinets full of records you could look through the last time I was there, that might be a start. Maybe one of the national labs that currently works on stuff has public records?" - colechristensen
  • "The Atomic Heritage Foundation collects records about people who were affiliated with the Manhattan Project, as well as oral histories. Perhaps they have more information about your grandfather's work? See here: https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/bios/" - theresistor
• Challenges with record availability and accuracy were also noted, including name permutations and indexes for archives.
  • "One thing that makes matters a bit more difficult was record keeping at the time. My family has some other documents from his life where he apparently went by a few different permutations of his name. That, or mistakes were made when entering records." - hirvi74
  • "They will refer you to online NTS archives, and the vast majority of those available (post-declassification) are about radiation effects on biology particularly as regards historical incidents of radiation hazards. Oh, and, no index so you never know if you are seeing the entire universe of documents available." - ricksunny

The Dawn of Nuclear Technology: Chicago Pile-1

The early days of nuclear fission, specifically the Chicago Pile-1 (CP-1), are detailed, highlighting its historical significance and the experimental nature of the work.

• "Before there was any bomb there was the Chicago Pile-1 in the middle of Chicago in a space under the stands at Stagg Field originally built as a rackets court... On December 2, 1942, Fermi announced that the pile had gone critical at 15:25... The pile had run for about 4.5 minutes at about 0.5 watts. Wigner opened a bottle of Chianti, which they drank from paper cups." - mclau157
• The low operating power of CP-1 meant little radiation hazard, and it was later dismantled and moved.
  • "That reactor was run at a very low power level, so there was little activity. It was dismantled in 1943 and the parts moved to make CP-2 near Chicago at a site that later became Argonne National Laboratory." - pfdietz
• The ingenuity of scientists like Fermi using basic tools like slide rules and graph paper for complex calculations is acknowledged, along with the inherent risks involved.
  • "Fermi was such a good physicist and a great hands-on engineer. Before electronic calculators or computers: a slide-rule, graphing paper and a notebook. A lot of danger getting the maths wrong! Luckily, Fermi was very good at maths." - sherr

The Concept of "Manhattan Projects" and Secrecy

A broader discussion extends to the definition of a "Manhattan Project" – large-scale, technologically driven, often secret national endeavors – and whether other projects fit this mold.

• The Moon landing is contrasted with the Manhattan Project due to the latter's secrecy.
  • "Moon landing was done in full view of the public while the Manhattan project was a total secret. Based on that, I don't think they are the same." - dylan604
• The development of stealth aircraft and secret satellite programs are suggested as closer parallels due to their secrecy.
  • "One could suggest the development of the B2 Stealth bomber would be closer than NASA. The design of satellites used by NRO are much more secret than NASA." - dylan604
• The inherent secrecy of any true "Manhattan Project" is emphasized, making identification difficult and leading to the possibility of current, undisclosed large-scale projects.
  • "Answering this question is necessarily an exercise in tautology. If there were any other extant Manhattan Projects, we would not citably known about it because, being a ‘Manhattan Project’, it would be replete with secrecy, including disinformation to keep the public from giving leaks about it any credibility." - ricksunny
• Examples of similarly scaled endeavors include the B-29 bomber program, Lockheed Skunk Works projects, Russian titanium submarines, the CORONA spy satellite program, and China's aircraft carrier construction.
  • "A similarly-scaled endeavor created and produced the B-29 bomber." - aerostable_slug
  • "Several products from the Lockheed Skunk Works, including the U-2 and SR-71 reconnaissance aircraft and the early stealth aircraft." - Animats
• The cost comparison between the Manhattan Project and the B-29 bomber program is debated, with some suggesting the B-29 was more expensive.
  • "Evidently the development of the B29 bomber (one of which carried the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs) cost more than the Manhattan project." - bwanab
  • "This article claims the B-29 bomber cost more to develop than the atomic bomb. Wild to think that the atomic bombe is simpler than an airplane." - detourdog

Global Nuclear Development and International Factors

The discussion touches upon how other nations developed their nuclear programs, often benefiting from intelligence or differing technological paths.

• The Soviet Union's rapid development is attributed, in part, to espionage and focusing on proven technologies like plutonium production before uranium enrichment.
  • "The USSR obtained secret American information from spies and the UK (first bomb test: 1952) had secret information that was intentionally shared by the US. France (first bomb test: 1960) is an interesting case because it developed its program relatively frugally without intentional US information sharing or (as far as I know) spies within the US nuclear weapons program." - philipkglass
  • "They also had the benefit of having stolen information on what did and didn't work, via spies like the Rosenbergs. Why try what doesn't work if someone else has proved the path before" - paradox460
• The cost and complexity of Soviet efforts are noted, including the decision to build facilities underground for protection.
  • "True, but I would note the Soviets chose to do things like put nuclear reactors and Pu production complexes underground to protect them from American air strikes. The sheer scale of their efforts and the added requirements for things like undergrounding entire plants certainly pushed their spending sky-high." - aerostable_slug
• The initial belief that Germany was close to developing a bomb is revisited, with mentions of more recent scholarship suggesting they may have progressed further than previously understood, though this remains a contentious topic.
  • "One can suspect Vannevar Bush or Leslie Groves of ulterior motives (Vannevar: fomenting a defense-fueled ‘Big Science’ infrastructure which he certainly achieved going into the postwar, Groves: creating a weapon to fend off the Soviets for the postwar)." - ricksunny
  • "Man this is a dicy one. There has been some scholarship in recent decades that the Germans may have got a lot farther than history has hitherto accepted to date, all the way up to minor (semi-fizzled?) detonations. Rainer Karlsch has been the main accumulator of relevant archives especially from the Soviet side." - ricksunny