The Xerox PARC Influence vs. Apple's Innovation
A central theme revolves around the debate of how much credit Apple deserves for its user interface innovations, particularly in relation to Xerox PARC's pioneering work. While acknowledging Xerox's foundational contributions, several commenters argue that Apple significantly improved upon and iterated on Xerox's initial concepts, transforming them into more user-friendly and commercially viable products.
- "The Xerox influence was real but limited - Apple's team iterated extensively as shown in these polaroids, adding crucial innovations like drag-and-drop, pull-down menus, and the desktop metaphor that weren't in the original Alto/Star interfaces." - ethan_smith
- "In context those are just tweaks ... Xerox designed the entire WIMP (Windows, Icons, Mouse, Pointer) UI concept, including the bitmapped display it is based on, first commercial mouse, ethernet networking ... Xerox's invention was visionary and pioneering. Apple's was just engineering iteration." - HarHarVeryFunny. A contrasting argument suggesting Xerox deserves the lion's share of credit.
- "The desktop metaphor absolutely was in the Xerox Star and that was copied by the Lisa team (and carried over to the Mac) after they viewed it when Star was first announce. That’s well documented." - knuckleheadsmif, adding nuance by pointing out that some features, like the desktop metaphor, were present in Xerox's Star system.
- "Apple absolutely also did their own research and design that was unique. And in cases the duplicated earlier research but came to a different conclusion (for example the number of buttons on a mouse.) I think Apple did more with direct manipulation than others did taking it to more extremes — but you can still see that in other earlier systems." - knuckleheadsmif, highlighting independent research and divergent design choices made by Apple.
- "As you can see in the Polaroids, Lisa took the lead from Xerox but then charted their own course. (Windows, it is said, then copied that.)" - JKCalhoun reinforcing Apple's iterative development.
The Untold Story of Xerox and Apple's Deal
Another theme that emerges is the business context surrounding Apple's access to Xerox's technology, including a potentially overlooked aspect of the relationship:
- "The part so-often left out of this story (that Apple "stole IP from Xerox") is that the C-suite at Xerox got special considerations during AAPL's IPO, in exchange for access to their engineers in Palo Alto. From the POV of these former salesmen-turned-executives, it was fiscally worthwhile (they generally despised/misunderstood PARC engineers)." - ProllyInfamous, providing the context of an explicit deal and Xerox's own misunderstanding of the value of their PARC innovations.
Appreciation for Bill Atkinson and the Lisa/Mac Team
Many commenters express admiration for Bill Atkinson's contributions and the broader team behind the Lisa and Macintosh, arguing they deserve more recognition for their work.
- "His software was so strong, it made the Macintosh what it was at the time, and indirectly shaped Windows and Linux’s UI to either imitate or showboat against it. The magnitude of his contributions to everything we think was normal now can’t even be stated. Apple drifts around more but the products still have a lot of his DNA in it." - hyperhello, underlining Atkinson's significant impact on modern UI.
- "Agree. I hate to see Bill and team not get the credit they deserve. There is the idea (so famously put forward by Bill Gates) that Windows and Lisa (Mac) both ripped off Xerox — and I think that is misleading at best." - JKCalhoun, defending Bill Atkinson and the team's genuine contributions.
- "Yeah, it was an amazing team, and it's well-worth reviewing the stories at Folklore.org" - WillAdams, pointing to a valuable resource for learning more about the team's work.
Lamenting the Decline of the Full-Stack Developer/Designer
Several comments touch on the idea that modern software development often discourages individuals from having a broad skillset, spanning both design and implementation, contrasting with the capabilities of figures like Bill Atkinson.
- "This stuff is why I am so cynical about modern software development management. Bill Atkinson wrote QuickDraw, a masterpiece of low level programming, but also had a very solid grasp about what it was for right down to the UX it was to enable, and as shown here how the UX evolved with user testing. These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility." - fidotron, expressing cynicism about the current management trend.
- "I don't know about that, but in many/most organisations it's actively discouraged so you simply don't see it. That naturally occurs in large corporations where individuals have very narrow responsibilities, but I've also been surprised to find it happening even in the smallest of startups on occasion." - bartread, agreeing that broad skillsets are often discouraged.
- "It is very hard to be allowed to push or invent anything new in an area that isn’t your job description." - qgin, supporting the restrictive nature of modern development roles.
The Computer History Museum's Value and Events
The discussion also highlights the value and enriching experience provided by the Computer History Museum (CHM), emphasizing its events and the opportunity to interact with influential figures in computing history.
- "I love the Computer History Museum (this is published on their channel). The museum itself is not so special, but it's run by all these retired volunteer industry veterans that have incredible stories to tell, and they are such delightful and smart people. They were the ones at the front-lines when everything was starting." - oersted, highlighting the value of the museum's staff.
- "My favorite part about the Computer History Museum is the events they hold occasionally where they have live interviews and demos from legendary figures in computing... There's also a chance to meet legendary figures in person." - linguae, illustrating specific experiences made possible by the CHM and its location in Silicon Valley.
- "As a CHM staffer who produced the Lisa@40 and Mac@40 events, I'm so gratified to hear these were as meaningful to you as they were to me! :)" - davidmurphy , receiving positive feedback for CHM events and hinting at upcoming events.
- "...the volunteers had built an arduino interface to drive it and interface it to bring it back to life, and hearing them explain how everything works with the requisite enthusiasm was a great experience for a vintage computer nerd. That sucker is pneumatic !" - jazzyjackson, providing an example of an enthusastic and educational museum experience.