Chicago has the most lead pipes in the nation

Here's a summary of the themes expressed in the Hacker News discussion, with direct quotes:

Lead Pipes Pervasiveness and Risks

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the widespread use of lead pipes in municipal water systems, particularly in older cities like Chicago, and the inherent risks associated with them. Users express concern about the contamination of drinking water and the long-term health consequences, especially for children.

• SilverElfin raised an initial question about data accuracy and the implications of "damaged pipes" and leaks, stating, "I wonder what the accuracy of the data is like. And what do you do about damaged pipes? I read that cities lose a lot of water to leaks. Doesn’t that also mean pollutants can get in? And it won’t matter if your pipe is lead or whatever else."
• spwa4 highlighted the systemic nature of the problem, even for homes not directly connected to lead pipes: "That doesn't really matter, sadly, if it's connected to the same network. Lead has very bad effects on children in trace amounts, and in a network the water comes from everywhere (it takes all paths, not the shortest path, when you open the tap)." They further emphasized the severity: "Trace amounts inhibit brain development in children, and there is no treatment possible once it happens. Damage is permanent, even if you remove the lead (which is expensive and has serious side effects)."
• cma pointed out Chicago's scale of the problem: "Chicago has the highest number of lead water service lines in the nation, with an estimated 412,000 of about 491,000 lines at least partly made of lead or contaminated with the dangerous metal."
• erosenbe0 provided context on historical lead exposure: "Primary source of exposure in Chicago is from household dust contaminated by old paint. Water is secondary or tertiary issue, but can be bad. The article is a bit off the mark as they did not interview the Chicago DPH inspectors who respond to high serum reports." They also noted current levels: "So 6-8 µg/dL doesn't guarantee cognitive disability, but it is still bad."
• mlindner offered a counterpoint, suggesting the pipes themselves aren't inherently problematic unless the water chemistry is unfavorable: "Lead pipes are actually fine. They don't leach lead into the water unless you send something corrosive through them like what happened in Flint."
• jMyles agreed on the importance of water chemistry: "Fine" might be overstating things, but yes we need to move the conversation toward water ph, which is probably at least as important as heavy metal pipes. Municipal water supplies need to be from clean alkaline sources."

Infrastructure Replacement Methods and Costs

The discussion delves into the practical aspects of replacing aging water infrastructure, exploring various methods, their effectiveness, costs, and the complexities involved in large-scale urban projects.

• toomuchtodo explained common replacement techniques: "You replace them by running new service lines using directional boring, falling back to trenching when directional boring is not an option. In the case of waste and sewer lines, you can run an epoxy coating internally (“relining”) versus replacement, which has cost savings ($100-$250/foot of pipe)." They elaborated with a quote from a source: "> Replacing a lead service line with a new copper service means running the new line from the water main in the street all the way into the house. There are two ways that can be done. With open trench replacements, a trench is dug from the home through the parkway to install the new service and access the water main. Trenchless construction runs the new service to the main underground, causing less disturbance to the surrounding area. The type of procedure performed will depend on several factors specific to each replacement."
• peterbecich distinguished between municipal and private-side solutions: "I don't know that epoxy coating is used at the municipal level. Pipe bursting with high-density polyethylene is the typical solution to avoid re-trenching municipal sewer pipes. Epoxy liners, epoxy coatings and polyurethane coatings are typical for a single property."
• mikepurvis shared a personal experience with a trenchless method: "I had my residential waste pipe lined with a fibreglass/resin sheath about a year ago. Inserting it was a process involving a lot of work on endoscopes and then the liner itself was adhered to the old pipe using a bladder filled with hot water. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cured-in-place_pipe. It was over CA$10k to get it done, but the cost of trenching that line could have been 3-4x the amount + an unacceptable risk to the foundation of the house from destabilizing the dirt around it."
• cma discussed cost-effective home solutions: "Reverse osmosis systems for the main drinking water sources are around $200 each now, 100X less than the cost of fixing if it's just the kitchen sink that they drink out of. They do require maintenance that many won't do, but it seems like there could be an app for that or some kind of automatic timed shutoff with a reminder to buy at least one extra filter at a time."

Pipe Material Efficacy and Longevity

The thread also features a debate regarding the suitability and longevity of different pipe materials used in water infrastructure, with copper, plastic (HDPE, PVC, PEX), and lead being compared.

• bluGill advocated for plastic: "Meanwhile everyone else has moved to plastic pipes which will last longer, are cheaper, and leach no metals (microplastics don't seem to come from water lines frome what I can tell, but I'm looking for confirmation)"
• toomuchtodo countered with copper's advantages: "Copper lasts ~20 years longer than plastic, making copper a superior choice for the longevity needed for the use case. Also, copper has anti microbial properties and rarely leaches in material quantities unless the water has a low pH."
• SlightlyLeftPad raised a concern about lead solder: "But has the tradeoff of using lead solder at every joint"
• Scoundreller clarified "lead-free" definitions and municipal treatment: "`Lead free' isn’t zero lead. ... A lot of municipal water systems have done more recent (but by no means required) improvements to the water itself to “coat” the lead in supply lines. Beyond just pH control, like orthophosphate. Most just in the last decade or so."
• cyberax spoke favorably of HDPE: "Copper is also susceptible to pinhole corrosion if iron gets into the pipes. There are no similarly catastrophic failure scenarios for HDPE. HDPE also doesn't need plasticizers, so it should be safer than PVC."
• coryrc expressed concern about plasticizers in plastic pipes: "Contaminants can migrate from soil through plastic, which is a problem in the rust belt, but can be dealt with an aluminum barrier layer. What is harder to avoid is endocrine-disrupting plasticizers, because of regulatory capture."

Government Coordination and Infrastructure Investment

Users express frustration with the perceived lack of coordination between government agencies responsible for infrastructure projects and the slow pace of replacement, questioning the efficiency of public spending and coordination.

• brianwawok observed a lack of coordination in Chicago: "When Chicago replaces pipes, they dig the street up, put in pipes, and lay down a new street. I’ve literally seen them do this, then one month later tear up the same street for a natural gas pipe project."
• stockresearcher contrasted public and private coordination: "This is true. For the private sector, it works pretty well. Road digging permits are posted on their webpage 6+ months in advance. If you see one on a section of street you planned to do work on, you are allowed to piggyback on the project and share the cost. If you don’t, you pay the entire cost. So there is huge incentive to coordinate. But city agencies? Not quite so incentivized."
• Spooky23 noted exceptions and varying state approaches: "There are lots of exceptions. The lead pipe hysteria and low pressure gas replacement is exempt from all of that. Some states are more schizophrenic than others. New York is simultaneously mandating replacement with high pressure gas mains that require biannual inspection and banning gas lines." They also stated, "Lead pipes are an engineering and chemistry issue. Pipes that are functioning properly don’t need replacement."
• xyst criticized the timeline for replacements: "Wow, that’s awful for the third largest city in the USA. Federal, state, local governments have failed in providing basic services. Thanks, trickle down economics! Reaganomics has been a massive mistake."
• nickff disagreed with the Reaganomics link: "What does Reaganomics have to do with Chicago failing to replace its water pipes? It’s a deeply Democratic city in a very Democratic state, and all three levels of government have been consistently increasing their spending in almost every area."
• queenkjuul suggested regulatory and funding issues: "Lack of regulations forcing the city to act and cutting federal spending on infrastructure to help them do it?"
• blasphemers blamed unions for the delay: "Chicago unions forced the installation of lead pipes for so long because of the higher labor cost of installation that the federal government had to step in and force them to stop installing lead pipes."
• skeezyboy summarized the perceived state of infrastructure: "richest country on the planet but looks like a charles dickens novel"

The Lead-Crime Hypothesis and General Public Health Concerns

A recurring, though debated, theme is the potential link between lead exposure and increased crime rates, alongside broader discussions about public health and societal well-being in the context of aging infrastructure.

• SilverElfin initially posited this connection: "An aside: lead exposure is thought to lead to increase violence. I wonder if Chicago having the most lead pipes is also a contributing cause of their (reputed) crime problem."
• hedora challenged the premise of a current crime crisis in Chicago, providing data: "Crime’s down in Chicago. 2024 saw a ~6-7% drop... Anyway, there isn’t a violent crime crisis in Chicago."
• bukcle8017, freen, and djtriptych debated the reliability of crime statistics and the potential for underreporting or manipulation, with freen stating, "Murder, which is kinda hard to “juke the stats”, is at historic lows." and buckle8017 arguing, "Crime statistics are virtually all based on arrest and police reports. When crimes aren't prosecuted the police don't make arrests and the public don't make reports."
• nickff attributed lack of reporting to distrust in police: "if the police response is unsatisfying, people just don’t bother to report many crimes to the police."
• erosenbe0 and freen provided more context on the "Lead Crime Hypothesis," with erosenbe0 referencing the broader historical context of lead exposure from gasoline: "So the crime hypothesis is more about baseline level of criminality being higher throughout the entire leaded gasoline era and for a few decades thereafter." freen linked to research titled "the Lead Crime Hypothesis."
• keepamovin strongly advocated for removing sources of lead: "Lead leads to above normal hostility and aggression. Lead paint, lead petrol, lead pipes - all must go. And maybe some kind of protection at shooting ranges?"