The Hacker News discussion on global fishing practices, particularly focusing on China's role, reveals several interconnected themes regarding sustainability, economic drivers, and international relations.
Environmental Impact of Fishing and Aquaculture
A significant thread of the conversation revolves around the environmental consequences of both wild-caught fishing and fish farming. Concerns are raised about the sustainability of current practices and their impact on marine ecosystems.
- Nursie states, "It’s bad for the salmon (in terms of animal welfare) and it’s wrecking the local ecosystems. It’s not any sort of panacea." They further elaborate, "We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at."
- tedk-42 questions the lack of alternatives: "You criticise, yet don't provide any suitable recommendations or alternatives." However, Bjartr pushes back on this sentiment: "> You criticise, yet don't provide any suitable recommendations or alternatives.\n\nI have always hated this take in any context I've seen it. Refusing to even acknowledge a problem as a problem unless presented with a solution is such an infuriating way to be dismissed."
- The destructive nature of bottom trawling is specifically highlighted by pen2l, who links to a video: "Bottom trawling in particular seems horrendous. Here is Attenborough narrating about the horrors of it and how it affects the ocean floor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXp3jo_uGOQ"
- On the positive side, squidsoup references the David Attenborough documentary "Ocean," suggesting that marine conservation areas can benefit fisheries: "Another recent discovery is that although we've damaged our fisheries significantly, oceanic ecosystems apparently recover much faster than terrestrial ecosystems if left untouched, within several years."
The Role of Aquaculture and Its Feed
The discussion touches on aquaculture as a potential solution to overfishing but also raises concerns about its own sustainability, particularly its reliance on wild-caught fish for feed.
- profsummergig introduces the idea of aquaculture: "China also produces enormous (enormous) quantities of seafood from caged underwater oceanic farms. It's the future of fishing IMHO."
- tedk-42 points out a potential perversity in this system: "Yes, but I suspect they way they feed these fish farms (desired, commercially viable fish) is by catching large portions of other fish (which explains how they account for 44%), processing it (grinding, drying to pellets etc) and then selling it to the farmers."
- reactordev notes the limitations of what can be farmed: "A lot of their species interests can’t be fish farmed. Some can but it’s not exactly economical to shark farm or squid farm."
Consumption, Resource Use, and Overfishing
A fundamental aspect of the debate is the underlying issue of human consumption driving overfishing and resource depletion.
- abdullahkhalids links overconsumption to a need for sustainable practices: "If people have liked to eat fish since the start, then maybe we should leave some for the next generations."
- meowkit provides an energy efficiency argument: "Short answer is energy efficiency. All energy on earth derives from 1) the sun or 2) geothermal. Energy is lost as you move further from those sources. Plants converting sunlight directly to usable energy are more efficient than a higher order animal eating another animal that ate another animal that ate a plant."
- wyre directly questions the cause of overfishing: "Really? The oceans are being overfished due to dietary demands for fish."
- barbazoo offers a broader perspective: "The fact that so many people rely on eating other animals is ruining the planet."
China's Fishing Practices and Global Accusations
A significant portion of the discussion centers on the scale and methods of China's distant water fishing (DWF) fleet, with accusations of IUU (Illegal, Unreported, and Unregulated) fishing and environmental exploitation.
- darth_avocado brings up the concept of "dark fleets": "The article only talks about visible fishing activity. But China operates many “dark fleets” where many unregistered boats sail along registered boats. They are fishing way more than the 44% that is being reported."
- scubakid mentions a specific concern: "I think the main concern is over IUU fishing, and China's fleet has been linked to that."
- JumpCrisscross elaborates on regulatory issues: "> _why does it matter where they're fishing if they're selling it worldwide?\n\nRegulation. Chinese boats fish in ways we block our own boats from. Those exports thus represent a regulatory workaround, victim the oceans, and a tool with which buyers can demand reciprocal regulation."
- IG_Semmelweiss details specific tactics: "They will approach a protected ecosystem, which is thriving with fish like that of the galapagos islands, for example. They will hang out right at the limit of the maritime nautical border with the native country. Then they will shut down naval GPS transponders (disabling of AIS - Automatic Identification System) and during the night, all at the same time, cross into the country's maritime space and quickly get out before its caught by the local patrols."
Geopolitics and Think Tank Narratives
Several users suggest that the focus on China's fishing practices is intertwined with geopolitical motivations, particularly from US think tanks.
- maxglute is highly critical of the reporting on China's DWF fleet: "Another year another DC China IUU 'the worst' propaganda piece, except this time more stupid - already inflated esimate of PRC DWF fleet last year was 18000... now 32000 kek. It's hilarious to see PRC DWF inflation from 3000 in 2020 to 6000 to 18000 and now 32000 in 5 years." They argue that such reports are used to "beef up influence of pacific nations playing up PRC IUU fishing so they can drive the issue to forward deploy coast guard and build influence. It's geopolitical lawfare."
- chvid comments on the manipulation: "It is higly manipulative. But people are licking it up. It is kinda scary how effectively these Washington think tanks are manufacturing consent for a naval confrontation with China."
- JackYoustra defends US efforts, framing them as combating IUU fishing and safeguarding sovereignty: "The United States is doing a lot of effective work to combat this. A lot of countries have large EEZs covering a lot of the pacific but have no navy to police it with."
Economic and Regulatory Externalities
The discussion also touches upon how economic activities, like fishing, often fail to account for their real-world costs.
- mlyle points out the missing externalities: "Externalities _also_ exist-- funny how the dead seafloor and collapsing local fisheries don’t show up in the export statistics."
- abdullahkhalids proposes a systemic solution: "The solution to overfishing, over consumption of fossil fuels, over consumption of beef etc is all the same in the current system. Impose appropriate taxes that adequately capture the impact of the negative externalities."
Future of Fishing and Regulation
Looking ahead, users discuss potential solutions, including enhanced regulation and innovative fishing strategies.
- profsummergig suggests a cynical but perhaps realistic outlook on luxury consumption: "The rich, everywhere in the world, will continue to seek wild-caught though. (While they publicly rail against the poor eating wild-caught. Such is how the wheels turn.)."
- WillAdams expresses concern about the future of fishing without sufficient regulation: "I worry that I live in a time when commercial fishing is not sufficiently regulated so that rather than being outlawed, it will simply become infeasible, with the attendant knock-on affects of countries which depend on the oceans for a significant portion of their protein."
- kingstnap ponders engineering new fisheries: "I wonder about engineering yourself a productive fishery instead of exploiting wild stocks. Most of the ocean is practically a desert. The only productive places are near land, where deep water up wells and returns sunken nutrients back to the surface. I'm sure we could study and engineer some sort of nutrient dumping and cycling scheme. I bet you could make vastly more food while leaving a lot of ocean alone."
Labor Practices in the Seafood Industry
A disturbing element raised is the potential for forced labor within the seafood processing industry.
- jihadjihad shares a New Yorker story: "There was a story [0] that ran in the New Yorker a year ago that detailed how North Koreans are sent to Chinese seafood plants in forced labor."
- maxglute supports this, mentioning it in the context of other countries: "JP/SKR/TW all does it brazenly (i.e. pacific / south american EEZs), SKR/TW also with their share of slave labor."