Here's a summary of the themes expressed in the Hacker News discussion:
The Ideal of Simplicity vs. Realistic Complexity
A central theme is the tension between the aspirational goal of simplicity in software development and the often messy reality of implementing it. While universally acknowledged as desirable, achieving true simplicity is difficult and often misunderstood.
- "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - al_borland
- "The simplest thing that could possibly work" is often considered a mantra for good engineering.
- However, many users express the difficulty in identifying what "simple" truly means and how to implement it without creating hidden complexities or sacrificing necessary functionality.
- "Simplicity is a great virtue but it requires hard work to achieve it and education to appreciate it. And to make matters worse: complexity sells better." - johannessjoberg (quoting Dijkstra)
- Some argue that the advice is best for experienced developers who can discern true simplicity from mere ease of implementation or superficial tidiness. "The irony of this kind of advice is that it's best for people who already have a lot of experience and have the judgement to apply it." - GMoromisato
- Conversely, others feel that junior developers, who might benefit most from clear guidance, cannot apply it due to their lack of experience.
The Subjectivity and Elusiveness of "Works"
The definition of "works" is a recurring point of contention. It's not simply about producing a desired output, but doing so reliably, efficiently, and for the "right reasons."
- "One of the biggest, evergreen arguments I’ve had in my career revolves around the definition of 'works'." - hinkley
- "Just because it works doesn’t mean it isn’t broken." - hinkley (and others)
- "It’s not enough for a program to work – it has to work for the right reasons" - fuzzy2 (quoting from somewhere)
- "It might fail to do so reliably, or it might only be able to do so at great cost." - mandelbrotwurst
- The discussion highlights how "working" can be subjective, influenced by business priorities (hitting a metric vs. prioritizing quality), and can even be a deceptive state, as in the case of "demo stubs" that appear to work but lack substance. - Aurornis
The Danger of Premature Optimization and Unnecessary Complexity (Resume-Driven Development)
A significant theme is the tendency to introduce complexity unnecessarily. This can stem from a desire to experiment with new technologies, to impress management, or simply from a lack of clear requirements.
- "This is indeed a vexing issue. I feel it often. It's this feeling that leads to resume-driven development which I really work hard to avoid." - threemux
- Users share experiences of being tasked with evaluating every new piece of software or "shoehorning" experimental technologies into projects without a clear need. - IAmBroom, colecut
- The concept of "YAGNI" (You Aren't Gonna Need It) is referenced as a counterpoint to this tendency. - hu3
- There's a concern that new technologies, like AI, might exacerbate this problem by adding layers of complexity rather than simplifying. - switchbak
The Value of Foundational Improvements and Refactoring
Several participants emphasize the profound impact of investing in fundamental improvements, such as robust CI/CD pipelines or clean deployment processes, even if it seems like "doing less." These investments can unlock significant productivity gains and enable more agile development.
- hinkley describes how fixing a deployment and hotfix process fundamentally changed the team's ability to iterate and tackle technical debt, leading to an "improvement in iterations per day and a net reduction in errors."
- The principle of "if it’s painful, do it until it isn’t" is highlighted as a core tenet of continuous improvement. - hinkley
- This contrasts with the idea that complexity is inherently required at scale, with some arguing that well-designed simple components are key.
The Role of Experience and Judgment
Many comments underscore that the ability to apply the principle of simplicity effectively is a skill developed through experience and good judgment.
- "The catch 22 is most people aren't going to hire the guy who bills himself as the guy who does the simplest thing that could possibly work. It turns out the complexities actually are often there for good reason. It's much more valuable to pay someone who has the ability to trade simplicity off for other desirable things." - hiAndrewQuinn
- "The obvious problem is that, for some strange reason, lots of concepts and patterns that may be useful when applied carefully become a cult (think clean architecture and clean code), which eventually only makes the industry worse." - dondraper36
- The discussion touches on "Chesterton's Fence," the idea that if you don't understand why a complex thing exists, you shouldn't dismantle it. This highlights the need for understanding before simplifying. - switchbak
The Definition of "Simple" Evolving with Context (Especially Cloud)
A newer theme emerging is how the definition of "simple" might be changing, particularly with the advent of sophisticated managed cloud services.
- Using battle-tested managed services (like DynamoDB or ElastiCache) might be considered "simpler" than building custom solutions, even if they involve external dependencies, because they handle scaling and operational complexity. - spectraldrift
- This challenges older notions where "simple" strictly meant fewer external dependencies. The modern "simplest thing" might leverage well-abstracted services. - spectraldrift, dasil003
- However, this also requires careful judgment, as over-adoption of managed services can also lead to its own set of complexities and regrets. - dasil003
The "Don't Repeat Yourself" (DRY) Principle and Technical Debt
While not the central focus, the idea of avoiding unnecessary repetition and the inherent trade-offs involved in technical debt creation and management is woven through the discussion.
- Some users acknowledge that the "simplest thing" might lead to technical debt, but the original proponents were aware of this, prioritizing getting code working first. - ternaryoperator
- The difficulty of refactoring or evolving systems without introducing further complexity or debt is a recurring concern. - jiggawatts, daxfohl
Simplicity as a Process, Not Just an Outcome
The discussion implies that achieving simplicity is an ongoing process of iteration, learning, and careful decision-making, rather than a one-time architectural choice.
- "Do the easiest thing that could possibly work, and then pound it into the simplest thing that could possibly work." - fruitplants (referencing Ward Cunningham)
- The process of identifying the simplest solution often involves exploring multiple approaches and understanding trade-offs. - tuatoru
- Ultimately, the ability to adapt and refine, often by embracing iteration and learning from mistakes, is key. - mindcrime