The Necessity of Internet Access and the Implications of Cut-offs
A strong consensus emerged that internet access is a fundamental necessity for participation in modern society, leading to the assertion that cutting off access should not even be a consideration.
"It's pretty much necessary to have Internet access to function in US society. So we shouldn't even have to talk about whether someone can be cut off from that." - neilv
Piracy as a Symptom of Service and Accessibility Issues
A significant portion of the discussion revolved around media piracy, with many users arguing that it is primarily a response to the inconvenience and difficulty of accessing content legally through legitimate channels. The fragmentation of services and the unavailability of content after release were frequently cited as contributing factors.
"Most media piracy is a direct result of it being somewhere between inconvenient and impossible to consume that media legally. See, for example, the tremendous drop in music piracy resulting from various music streaming purchases and Apple's popularization of direct track purchases before that." - crooked-v
"IME the cost savings of having a good piracy set-up (good = won't lose a ton of stuff on a single disk failure; streams well to your viewing devices in a way that normal people and visitors in your house can use without help) isn't even that large. I definitely wouldn't bother if I didn't have to have it to have (convenient) access to quite a bit of stuff I can't get any other way." - yepitwas
"Piracy is a service problem. Consumers have shown an overwhelming preference to pay for content. The only barrier to this are the distributors themselves." - mulmen
Critiques of Expanded Copyright Terms and Corporate Practices
The long duration of copyright protection was heavily criticized, with some arguing that it has broken the original social contract. Concerns were raised that copyright holders are often not the creators and that extended terms stifle creativity by preventing artists from building upon or referencing contemporary works.
"The freeloaders also include the copyright holders. Copyright was originally 28 years, but now it's life of the author plus 70 years, which from a consumer's perspective is effectively indefinite. The purpose of copyright was to secure a limited monopoly so creators can profit off their works and be incentivized to create more. Nowadays, the copyright is no longer limited, and the copyright holders are most often not those creating the works. The social contract with copyright has long since been broken." - atmavatar
"I think from an encouraging-the-arts perspective, the worst thing about the current crazy-long duration is that artists aren't free to react to and build on the contemporary influences of their youths. We're missing out on so much good stuff because artists can't go whichever way the mood strikes when they play with elements of works of the living artists that they enjoyed and admired and followed as they were developing. Copyright's so long that they can't too-closely engage with anyone's work unless the artist was dead before they were born. There's a latent, invisible whirlwind of creativity in the heads of writers, directors, et c., that they can't do anything with, and that we'll never get to see realized." - yepitwas
"Back in the days when the music industry stole from artists the justification was that it cost money to pay for recording studio time, print records, set up distribution channels, promote shows, organize shows, and so on. Then in the 90s, the cost of distribution went to 0 and by maybe the 2000s the cost of recording went to 0 in many cases. Somehow the artists are still not getting paid well and instead of setting up distribution channels the labels are spending their time trying to prevent people from distributing too much." - ants_everywhere
The Ineffectiveness and Disproportionate Nature of Piracy Enforcement
Suggestions for combating piracy through extreme penalties, such as life-destroying fines, were met with skepticism and counter-examples. The discussion highlighted that such measures may not be effective and can lead to absurd outcomes. The German "Störerhaftung" (liability for disruption) was cited as a case study of the problematic nature of holding intermediaries liable for user actions.
"IlikeKitties: ...Make pirates face jailtime or lifedestroying fines for torrenting a single movie, constantly scan all public torrents for IPs from your country, make VPN Providers liable for their customers and the use of out of country providers illegal. Enforce that Google, Apple and Microsoft do not allow foreign VPN providers software or non-registered VPN Connections and you end piracy. I've seen this in Germany when the fines where high enough, people were scared shitless. Make the fines life-destroying and circumvention a felony offense and you decimate piracy."
"shakna: And yet, in Germany like elsewhere, piracy spiked during COVID's lockdowns. Some places say greater than 180%. Showing that their enforcement alone, was not an effective tool."
"wlesieutre: The perfect solution to all crimes, totally out of scale punishments for every infraction! If we just charge people 10,000 euros per km/h over the speed limit, we could do away with speeding! Stop crime forever by bankrupting everyone who does anything bad!"
"heffer: Germany had this principle in place for a while for internet. It's called "Störerhaftung". Just google it and see the craziness that ensued. Led to exactly the kind of court cases you'd expect to see: grandmas paying to settle lawsuits for people abusing their misconfigured WiFi, AirBnB hosts paying for their tenants' torrenting."
Intermediary Liability as a Threat to Due Process and Innovation
The concept of intermediary liability was strongly condemned as a "scourge" that shifts responsibility and undermines due process. Critics argued that it deputizes private entities as judges, incentivizing them to err on the side of accusers to avoid liability, potentially leading to unfair outcomes. Furthermore, it was pointed out that media conglomerates themselves are not infallible and could be caught in such a system.
"AnthonyMouse: The premise of intermediary liability is such a scourge. You have a dispute between two parties but the plaintiffs don't want to be bothered to prove their case, so instead they want to a) deputize some conglomerate as the judge and then b) be able to sue the conglomerate if it sides with the accused; but not allow the accused the same privilege."
"AnthonyMouse: ...But what do you think happens when anyone can make an accusation and you abolish due process? I mean forget about all the peasants who are going to get steamrolled; does Hollywood not realize that they themselves require internet access? That's not even going to require false accusations -- they're hosting millions of hours of content with complex licensing and are nowhere near infallible enough to have made less than three mistakes."
The Shifting Landscape of Artist Compensation and Distribution
The discussion touched upon the changing economics of the music industry, with some asserting that the dramatic reduction in the cost of recording and distribution should have translated into better artist compensation. However, others pointed out that many costs remain significant and that artists are now more empowered than ever to manage their own careers. The potential of social media to enable niche artists was also highlighted.
"privatelypublic: Recording and distribution aren't anywhere close to zero, and a myriad of other costs haven't changed. Are they likely taking excessive percentages of an artists sales? Yes. But- artists are also more able than ever to wing it themselves. AAA level recording studios may still be huge money- but Good Enough (equipment) can be had for less than a used Car."
"RajT88: It is hard to overstate the impact of social media here. There are acts making a go of it which were unthinkable back in the day."
Re-evaluating the Role of Recordings and Promoting Live Performance
A conceptual reframing of recordings as advertising for bands, with live performances being the primary revenue source, was proposed as a potential solution to the current challenges in artist compensation and content distribution.
"WalterBright: A reframe is the only solution. I.e. consider the recording as advertising for the band. Then, charge for live performances."