This discussion revolves around the discontinuation of Fakespot, a browser extension that identified suspicious product reviews, and the broader implications for online shopping trustworthiness and the role of organizations like Mozilla.
Disappearance of Fakespot and the Problem of Fake Reviews
The core of the discussion is the sunsetting of Fakespot, a tool that aimed to combat the pervasive issue of fake product reviews on platforms like Amazon. Users express dismay and a sense of loss for a valuable tool, while also questioning its effectiveness and the reasons behind its closure.
- "For the unfamiliar, Fakespot was a browser extension that flagged suspicious product reviews on sites like Amazon." - doppio19
- "I found that it did a pretty decent job. Certainly not 100% accurate, but it often picked up on signals that made me give a closer look at a listing than I would have otherwise." - doppio19
- "The detection is getting harder as LLMs' writing patterns become less predictable, but I frequently come across reviews on Amazon that are so blatantly written by ChatGPT. A lot of these fake reviewers aren't particularly sneaky about it." - doppio19
- "It was falling behind. The dodgy stores were getting more creative and Fakespot needed to play catch up." - dankwizard
- "You've got stores that would include a $5-$20 coupon/gift card in the item in exchange for a positive review. Sure, this didn't 1:1 translate but if a user did it would look like a legitimate review. You've got a plethora of LLMs out there just itching to GENERATE." - dankwizard
Mozilla's Strategy and Sustainability
A significant theme is the questioning of Mozilla's decision-making and business model, particularly regarding Fakespot. Many users are confused about why Mozilla acquired Fakespot and then discontinued it, suggesting a lack of a clear strategy or a failure to monetize the service sustainably.
- "So they wrote a ping pong shader for monetization going with the user or selling out the user." - ashoeafoot
- "I don't know if it's fair for me to armchair quarterback, but still - what was their business model when they decided to do the acquisition? From the outside looking in barely did anything whatsoever." - bentcorner
- "I love FF and cheer Mozilla on where I can, but honestly these decisions are inscrutable." - bentcorner
- "They could have slid in their referral link, which would probably make them decent money, but the 'ick' factor is pretty high from consumers." - Workaccount2
- "Mozilla seems to be infected by upper management that feels a need to justify ever spiraling salaries." - TylerE
- "It's easier to justify a new thing than it is to make an improvement in an existing thing. Why do you think VPs love new projects / products so much?" - ethbr1
- "Could you fund this via a firm that litigated under consumer protection laws?" - Animats
- "Sadly, chalk up a victory for enshittification. I was a Firefox fax, now mostly use DuckDuckGo. Doesn't most of Mozilla's funding come from Google?" - CommenterPerson
- "'Mozilla couldn't find a sustainable model' seems to be a recurring theme." - pnw
- "Mozilla wants to be the 'web you can trust' brand, which involves not just shipping a browser but protecting people from the rougher sides of the internet." - IncreasePosts
- "I think this is the real answer; they've got a vague mission statement, they saw something they wanted to support, opted to buy it, and in classic Mozilla fashion let it squander because the managers in charge moved on." - zdragnar
- "It's a move straight out of Google's playbook, with the glaring flaw of them not being Google, and their user base likes them for not being Google." - zdragnar
- "I've never even heard of it, yet it was acquired by Mozilla? Seems like the problem is right in front of them; they didn't really try." - ravenstine
- "This shutdown feels like another case of 'big org can't monetize, so good idea gets shelved'" - veunes
- "Firefox is my primary browser and this is the very first time I have ever even heard the name Fakespot." - irrational
Amazon's Role and Practices
The discussion highlights Amazon's own practices that contribute to the fake review problem and make it difficult for tools like Fakespot to operate. Changes in how Amazon displays reviews, its inventory commingling policies, and its handling of counterfeit products are cited as significant issues.
- "But I do know that in late 2024, Amazon made a change where users now have to be logged in to view product reviews beyond the ones that appear on the first page (about 8 reviews)." - doppio19
- "From what I can tell, Fakespot scraped the Amazon product listing pages on their backend, so that simple change would have pretty much killed its current implementation." - doppio19
- "With removal of reviews that the seller doesn't like, there's really no point to taking Amazon's star ratings or reviews seriously. It's all a big lie." - Dwedit
- "Amazon is awful when it comes to striking down accusatory customer reviews." - colonial
- "Last year I (like a fool) purchased some chunky thru-hole MOSFETs on Amazon. Lo and behold, despite the datasheets promising a few amps with 3.3V at the gate, I only got a few milliamps. Obviously counterfeit - but no matter how hard I tried or how much indirection I employed, Amazon always took down my review warning others of this verifiable fact." - colonial
- "The problem with AliExpress is that you'll get a tip about time X, you click the link and the link is dead. You then search for thing X. You get about 1000 results of X from different sellers, most of them crap imitations and some of them even from stores that copy the name of former store of product X. All of the product pages look identical." - jorvi
- "The issue is that they commingle inventory their warehouses receive from third-party sellers based on ISBN. So if you receive a counterfeit, it might be the fault of the seller you bought it from, or it might be Amazon's fault for mixing in counterfeit goods from some other third-party seller without doing proper quality control. Unsurprisingly they don't want reviews that draw attention to this longstanding problem." - pseudo0
- "Amazon is pretty much Aliexpress now (and Temu in some cases). With bit of a markup on the price." - nirav72
- "Amazon also has a warning for some things that are 'frequently returned' or a notice that 'customers usually keep this item.'" - bb88
- "Amazon is great for returns. Buy $50 something from aliexpress, doesn't work, you can't do anything. Seller wont refund directly, you need to send the item back... to china... and fill out export forms and pay more than $50 for registered mail. Amazon? Doesn't work? Doesn't matter why, here's the return label, we'll refund you the moment we get the return." - ajsnigrutin
- "Amazon customer support flow routed me to an LLM chat bot which hallucinated a 1-800 number to call which was most definitely not Amazon on the other end. That's the real usefulness of LLMs: blackhole any dissent now that your monopoly is fully operational." - DragonStrength
- "Amazon also loves to remove all reviews that mention that the product is counterfeit. Several times I did receive clear counterfeit goods via Amazon, but there is no way to warn others as these reviews are blocked." - pergadad
- "Amazon used to offer this as a service! [buying three of the clothes they buy and returns two of them]" - haiku2077
The Future of Review Verification and Alternatives
The discussion also touches on the need for new solutions to the fake review problem, especially with the rise of LLMs. The original poster is working on a successor to Fakespot, and other users are seeking or suggesting alternative methods for evaluating product quality.
- "As someone building in this space, I wrote about Fakespot's history, the problem it solved, and why we need sustainable alternatives." - doppio19
- "I'm actively working on one at https://www.truestar.pro because I couldn't find a drop-in alternative to Fakespot." - doppio19
- "Essentially, a spiritual successor to Fakespot that combines LLM analysis, more traditional ML techniques, and rule-based heuristics to detect fake reviews. I'll likely go the 'subscription with generous free trial' route, to avoid meeting the same fate as Fakespot." - doppio19
- "I saw that actually. I mentioned in another post on here recently that I figured that the only way a Fakespot v2 could exist is with a subscription model, but on the other hand, it's probably not something I could afford. Good luck with it though! You could always try advertising & affiliate links as a test to monetize the service as well." - pogue
- "Please help me understand why a subscription to your service should be a valuable addition to my monthly spend." - Mtinie
- "Syntaf: Attribution revenue is what I would consider the gold standard for these types of services." - Syntaf
- "I've started resorting to the “x bought this month” metric instead. If a product works for thousands of people and they continue to buy 500+ units a month, clearly it is a good option." - SamuelAdams
- "They also tell you if a product has a high return rate, which is helpful." - derekp7
- "I generally look for 3-star reviews with coherent complaints." - veunes
- "I do get the feeling that Mozilla has no idea what their goal is any more. Another one they are like is Yahoo! Just seem to be endlessly trying new things but not really committing to any of the new things one they have them." - SlowTao
- "I can't see how it would stand a chance against LLM generated reviews without even having the log (keystroke?) data that Amazon does." - xnx
- "I recall seeing the Mozilla Review Checker pop up on Amazon shortly after I started using it as my daily driver. I dismissed it quickly because fake reviews is not a problem I have. Maybe I'm not the target market? I do buy a lot on Amazon but can't recall ever thinking I felt burned by fake reviews." - colinbartlett
- "I think by now I have quickly learnt that they can just read all the worst reviews and see if they can: 1. put up with the drawbacks, 2. see how frequent manufacturing defects are. 5 reviews are only useful if they upload real images." - hnthrowaway_423*
- "I sell books on Amazon.com through their KDP Direct platform, and I have one book with two different covers; each is its own 'book' in their catalog. FakeSpot repeatedly marked reviews I knew were valid as fake; I knew this based on the fact that the same reviewer reviewed the 'other' book and that review was NOT flagged as fake. And this happened multiple times, and sometimes the wording of the two reviews were different. Further investigation showed FakeSpot had rather a poor reputation overall due to too many false positives. Good riddance, as far as I'm concerned." - Solomoriah
- "It's just hard to build a blunt tool that doesn't occasionally whack honest users too." - veunes
- "I prefer eBay at least it’s cheaper and the sellers care about reputation." - nothercastle
- "Reading reviews for the thing you are buying on the platform that you are buying it sounds a bit sketchy anyway." - ozgrakkurt
- "The only way to know about a product is to read about it elsewhere like New York Times which is not selling the product themselves." - mohsen1
- "Me and my partner just don't trust any reviews any more. Blogged about it here: https://johnnydecimal.com/20-29-communication/22-blog/22.00.0123-online-reviews-are-dead/ So you know what we do now? Ignore the overall rating: it's worthless. Instead, go directly to the 1. They're the only true indicator of a product/place/service. I'm not saying take them all at face value. You still have to put in some work. But all the data is in the one-stars." - jen729w*