HN Distilled

Essential insights from Hacker News discussions

Japan sets record of nearly 100k people aged over 100

Original Article

Hacker News Discussion

The Hacker News discussion on longevity and the claims of exceptionally long lifespans in Japan reveals several key themes:

Skepticism and Fraudulent Record-Keeping

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around doubts about the accuracy of reported centenarian and supercentenarian numbers, particularly in Japan. Users point to evidence of clerical errors, pension fraud, and the potential for governments to inflate these numbers for prestige.

  • "With all the care and life standard, seems to be a hard limit in our genes, so until something is done about that, better get realistic expectations." - MichaelRo
  • "I'm extremely skeptical on claims of people having past 100 years of age." - MichaelRo
  • "Most of the centenarian fraud cases are due to family members trying to collect pensions after the person has died. Or, in some cases, the person themselves might have committed fraud just to receive government benefits." - aetherson, referencing a BBC article detail.
  • "Supercentenarian status is predicted by the absence of vital registration. The state-specific introduction of birth certificates is associated with a 69-82% fall in the number of supercentenarian records." - 3eb7988a1663, quoting from a research paper.
  • "For example, Costa Rica, 42% of the centenarians in Costa Rica turned out to be lying about their age after the study was conducted." - 3eb7988a1663, quoting an interview with a study author.
  • "The logical conclusion is fraud." - hajile, referring to a correlation between people living in poor neighborhoods and claiming advanced age.
  • "Japan sets record of nearly 100k people whose children are committing pension fraud." - aetherson
  • "I read such news with a grain of salt: However, when officials went to congratulate him on his 111th birthday, they found his 30-year-old remains, raising concerns that the welfare system is being exploited by dishonest relatives." - zac23or, citing an older BBC article.
  • "More than 230,000 elderly people in Japan who are listed as being aged 100 or over are unaccounted for, officials said following a nationwide inquiry." - poly2it

The Role of Lifestyle and Environment

Another prominent theme is the discussion of lifestyle factors that contribute to health and longevity, often contrasted between Japan and Western countries, particularly the US. This includes diet, exercise, and the built environment.

  • "I can tell you very easily why Japanese live longer than Americans, since I have spent abundant time in Japan." - panny
  • "I suspect two things, low-calorie diets consisting predominantly of fresh foods and vegetables. And active lifestyle." - valianteffort
  • "It is unreal how much a good diet and walking everyday will change your entire life." - valianteffort
  • "The secret to living to 110? Bad record-keeping, says Ig Nobel Prize winner." - euroclear, referencing the article's premise.
  • "No, it's the opposite - an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of a cure. Not getting sick in the first place is way better in every way than trying to fix the damage." - Mawr, regarding healthcare's role in preventing illness.
  • "I think this is mostly a social/societal thing - at an early age in schools they tell kids that they should only eat until they're 80% full. And there's substantial social pressure and bullying of anyone considered even mildly overweight." - zdw, on Japanese societal norms around eating.
  • "Also, most people have a lot of walking/biking built into their daily schedule, especially in larger cities where having a car is impractical." - zdw
  • "The public school food system also encourages healthy eating, and also general societal responsibility since children are the ones responsible for serving and cleaning up." - bobthepanda
  • "Precisely that they don't need to make choices due to their environment is what makes the difference. In the US and EU people love their individualism, spend a gazillion on fitness interventions and most people are overweight, it's probably the most visible sign of the importance of culture." - Barrin92, on environmental design in Japan vs. the US/EU.
  • "By default in Japan you eat a reasonably healthy diet and walk/bike regularly. By default in America you eat fast food and drive everywhere." - Mawr
  • "North America is a car captured hellscape where so many people have zero options but to sit in a car to get everywhere they want to go. Meanwhile in Japan and so many other regions in Europe that are pointed to as healthier people have the option to simply walk to do so many of their daily tasks." - Tiktaalik
  • "No real surprise that the regions where people have to actively work harder to be active are in poorer health than others where being active is the default easiest choice. The built environment is a critical thing here we can fix to make a healthier society." - Tiktaalik
  • "It’s not, my mom moved in and I brought her on short daily walks. She lost 70 pounds in one year." - mensetmanusman, illustrating the impact of walking.
  • "The average person might only be eating 200-300 calories more than their grandparents did, though. That’s actually within the range where you could overcome it with daily activity." - Aurornis
  • "It's substantially easier to build up a lot of time exercising by just walking as part of the things you do in daily life; a dedicated workout is generally only about 45-90 minutes." - bobthepanda, on the integration of walking into daily life in Japan.
  • "Living in Japan now and I do eat much healthier and walk way more than I ever did. Sometimes it's just for fun since the city I live in is walkable, but also my commute to work involves at least an hour of walking to and from stations which I have gotten used to." - famahar

The Importance of Genetics

Genetics is frequently mentioned as a key factor in determining lifespan, often alongside lifestyle choices.

  • "Genetics and luck play also a big role." - mahkeiro
  • "I assume the secret is mostly genetics..." - siva7
  • "That, but also various factors during one's life - most importantly, ample and healthy food (especially during fetal growth, childhood and youth), a lack of exposure to known damaging factors for physical and mental health (smog, noise, tobacco, alcohol and other drugs), and a lack of wars and other forms of violence." - mschuster91, building on the idea of genetics.
  • "I thought this was established that the med diet had no effect and was merely correlated with genetics in blue zones?" - kjkjadksj

Quality of Life at Advanced Ages

A recurring sentiment is the preference for a relatively quick death in old age rather than a prolonged existence with severe health deterioration and loss of function.

  • "Honestly, I dont if I'm in poor health. Rather die straight up in my 70s or 80s with a quick death VS be 100+ and not be able to do shit and watch as my body slowly falls apart and starts failing me." - edm0nd
  • "My grandfather made it to 98, but holy cow he was frail. The last few years of his life he couldn’t move much. Shuffle walked only a few inches. Drooled on every meal in front of him. I loved my grandfather but watching him in that state, we were all relieved for him when he passed." - reactordev
  • "These old people are gunna be kinda fucked." - edm0nd, referring to the potential isolation and health issues of Japan's "hikikomori" population.

Diet: Mediterranean vs. Japanese

There's a sub-discussion comparing the perceived health benefits of the Mediterranean diet versus the Japanese diet, and why the former is more widely marketed in the West.

  • "I wonder why nearly all the focus in the US on healthy diets is on the Mediterranean diet and not the Japanese one..." - sleigh-bells
  • "The Mediterranean diet is pretty much nothing like people in the Mediterranean eat today either. Very old people had a radically different diet during most of their life." - adrianN
  • "Most people should be improving their diets and getting a little more activity." - Aurornis, in response to the diet debate.
  • "Because it's easier to emulate Mediterrean diet as all the ingredients are more likely to be accessible? Japanese cuisine has a lot of funky ingredients that are not really produced outside of Japan or East Asia." - empiko
  • "The problem is that in the US Italian food is mostly some fastfood abomination that is not really what is eaten in Italy." - alkyon

Societal Values and Trust

The discussion touches on cultural aspects, including Japan's reputation as a "high trust society" and how this might interact with reported statistics, as well as societal pressures related to health and appearance.

  • "Possible, but also Japan is such a high trust society I would be shocked if this is the reason" - julianozen, in response to fraud theories.
  • "Trust works both ways. There's also the trust that nobody will report anyone for the fraud, especially if it is widespread and normalized." - danans
  • "If Japan is such a high trust society, why do they have separate train compartments for women?" - middleclick, questioning the assumption of universal high trust.
  • "I don't think defrauding the government is all that related to what is typically meant by high/low trust societies." - sfdlkj3jk342a
  • "It's like how every asylum seeker in the uk is born 1st of january. It's not because they're born 1st of january, it's because they burned their documents in order to illegally migrate. But if you took that at face value, you'd assume that afghanistan only ever births people on the 1st of january." - MagicMoonlight, using an analogy to explain how apparent statistical anomalies can be due to underlying issues rather than intended behaviors.
  • "I speculate that the tendency to lie about age might be tied to cultural reasons, perhaps familial pride or pressure to maintain a certain image, rather than outright fraud for financial gain." - aetherson.
  • "It's not about diet, at least not mostly. It's about societal pressure." - odiroot, on factors contributing to Japanese longevity.