Here's a breakdown of the main themes discussed in the Hacker News thread about Juneteenth, with supporting quotes:
Preference for "Emancipation Day" vs. "Juneteenth"
Several users debated the merits of the name "Juneteenth" versus "Emancipation Day," primarily focusing on clarity and recognition.
- Lack of Familiarity: Some argued that "Juneteenth" is not widely understood. "I substantially prefer the term 'Emancipation Day,' as it gets the point across more clearly. Lots of people don't know what 'Juneteenth' means, since it's not a real word." (sfblah)
- Portmanteau Argument: The discussion delved into whether "Juneteenth" is a useful portmanteau like "Frappuccino." "Both of those are portmanteau's, giving hints as to their meaning. No such thing with Juneteenth." (loughnane)
- Established Usage: Counterarguments emphasized that "Juneteenth" has historical usage and recognition. "Regardless, people have been calling it Juneteenth for over a hundred years, it was made a national holiday as Juneteenth, I'm gonna keep calling it that." (ryanmcbride)
- Inertia/Resistance to Change: A key point was the impracticality of changing the name now. "Wouldn't it be even more ridiculous if the US federal government took an existing celebration and renamed it?" (quesera)
- Name Meaning: Several argued that a good name should suggest something about what the holiday celebrates, not just when it is. "Picturing a frappe and cappuccino gives you a sense for what a Frappuccino is. Picturing june and thirteenth/nineteenth only gives you sense for when it is. In only contend a better name would be one where the name suggests something about the content to someone hearing it for the first time." (loughnane)
- And one sarcastic poster noted how poor of a designator month names such as September through December are: "Wait until you hear about September through December not being the 7th through 10th months of the year. They don’t even give you a sense for when they are. Or, more accurately, they give you the wrong sense for when they are by name alone." (derstander)
- Another use pointed out a very similar popular analogy: "Another American holiday coming up with an equally useless name is Fourth of July. Nobody seems to have a problem with that name, and nobody I know calls it Independence Day. Neither Fourth of July or Juneteenth are great names out of context, but they both have histories behind them and can't be changed anymore." (pyridines)
Historical Accuracy of Juneteenth
The discussion touched on the historical specifics of Juneteenth in relation to the Emancipation Proclamation and the 13th Amendment.
- Juneteenth and the Emancipation Proclamation: There was clarification that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves. "The Emancipation Proclamation freed very few slaves. The order did not apply to areas of the Union which still had slaves, nor did it apply to areas of the Confederacy occupied by the Union." (mateo411)
- Juneteenth and the 13th Amendment: Several users pointed out that the 13th Amendment formally abolished slavery nationwide. "The last slaves in the United States were set free by the thirteenth amendment in Delaware, IIRC." (ghastmaster)
- Juneteenth as Symbolic: This leads to the idea that Juneteenth isn't about the end of slavery, but a significant event in its ending and thus a worthwhile celebration. "Not to put too fine a point on it, but maybe that's why black Americans celebrate Juneteenth instead? Kind of makes sense to me." (bilbo0s)
- The Role of the Union Army: It was noted that the enforcement of emancipation often depended on the presence of Union troops. "When the Northern army was in Southern territory they would free the local slaves. They would then recruit volunteers into the army. Not sure how many they freed but they did pick up about 200k soldiers that way." (stonemetal12)
Relevance and Awareness of Juneteenth Across Different Communities
A strand of the discussion revolved around whether Juneteenth is universally recognized and celebrated, particularly within the Black community.
- Regional Variations: Some argued that Juneteenth was not a widespread celebration until recently. "In Texas and maybe celebrated in other places(I haven't done the research) this is true. For a large swath of the United States it was obscure or unknown." (ghastmaster)
- Anecdotal Evidence of Lack of Awareness: One user stated that, in their experience, Juneteenth wasn't embraced by many African-Americans in coastal California. "African-Americans in coastal California for the most part do not care about Juneteenth..." (mistrial9)
- Counter-Anecdotal Evidence and Diversity: This claim was challenged as an overgeneralization, with the user pointing out the diversity of experiences. "Some do, some don't. 'Black Americans in Coastal California' aren't a homogenous group, and this varies a lot by things like family geographic history, socioeconomic status, and a variety of other factors." (dragonwriter)
- The Impact of Federal Holiday Status: Users noted the holiday is just becoming widely celebrated. "It's a federal holiday now so there eventually will be a tradition around the whole country." (Larrikin)
The Lingering Issue of Slavery via the 13th Amendment
The loophole in the 13th Amendment regarding penal labor was raised as a continuing issue.
- The "Exception" Clause: The wording of the 13th Amendment allows for slavery as punishment for a crime. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States..." (stirfish quoting the 13th Amendment)
- Penal Labor Today: This was connected to the high prison population in the US. "You may be surprised to learn that, coincidentally, America has more people in prison than anywhere else." (stirfish)
- Ending Penal Slavery: One user even cited a youtube video that explained that Roosevelt ended penal slavery during WWII. "To expand on this, knowingbetter did an in-depth video on this topic[0]. The salient bit is that penal slavery was ended in 1941-1942 by Roosevelt, so that the Japanese couldn't use it as war propaganda against the US." (TremendousJudge)
- Relevance of Slavery Today: Some users argue that there a similarity between slavery yesterday and the prison system today. "In my opinion, we still have slaves in the USA. (In prison, as explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment)" (lukas099)