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Essential insights from Hacker News discussions

Nearly 1 in 3 Starlink satellites detected within the SKA-Low frequency band

Original Article

Hacker News Discussion

Here's a summary of the themes expressed in the Hacker News discussion:

The Growing Congestion of Low Earth Orbit (LEO)

The discussion highlights the rapid increase in satellite launches into LEO, driven by various actors including SpaceX, China, and other commercial entities. This is leading to a more crowded space environment.

  • "Mitigation is going to be the name of the game. Whether they like it or not, low earth orbit (LEO) is becoming a very busy place and it's not just SpaceX launching lots of little satellites there. The Chinese are very busy launching their own satellites into LEO." - jillesvangurp
  • "And there are a growing number of companies with LEO launch capability." - jillesvangurp
  • "LEO is becoming a very busy place and it's not just SpaceX launching lots of little satellites there." - jillesvangurp

The Rationale for Satellite Constellations

A key theme is the underlying demand driving the deployment of large satellite constellations, primarily for communication services like internet access and military applications.

  • "They are apparently quite useful for things like communication, providing internet, etc. And people are willing to pay for that kind of stuff. It's not more complicated than that." - jillesvangurp
  • "If you think the internet is a big deal, you haven't run into how happy the military is to have high bandwidth low-latency communications anywhere on the planet." - XorNot
  • "Starlink is nothing compared to the value Starshield provides, and the civilian product drives costs down." - XorNot
  • "With drone warfare being the next thing, the US probably can't afford to not have a company running a major LEO ISP." - XorNot
  • "Why do we need radio telescopes. Satellite communications are infinitely more useful for people on earth than some research papers about things light-years away" - jocaal

Impact on Radio Astronomy and Scientific Observation

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the negative impact that these large constellations are having, or are predicted to have, on radio astronomy, particularly concerning radio frequency interference (RFI).

  • "The authors estimate a lower limit of 93 Jy per beam in the frequency averaged images containing Starlink emission. Considering just 1 mJy of radio frequency interference could mess up an EoR power spectrum integration, this could severely affect SKA-Low EoR science." - aragilar
  • "My point here was not to contest that but make the point that the cat is out of the bag and that it is indeed impacting SKA-Low EoR science and the people involved with that have to deal with that." - jillesvangurp
  • "Getting the cat a little bit back in the bag via policy and other means is maybe worth trying (good luck) but I don't give it a very high chance of success." - jillesvangurp
  • rickdeckard: "The source states that the UEMR SpaceX causes in this spectrum is currently not regulated but interferes with astronomical observations. The claim stands whether a regulation will be put in place which will require SpaceX to fix or switch off their (thousands) of satellites polluting the spectrum or the band will simply be handed to SpaceX."
  • rickdeckard: "This radio emission at lower frequencies from Starlink isnā€™t their downlink frequency, but instead unintentional electromagnetic radiation (UEMR), thought to be caused by the onboard electronics of the satellite."

The Role of Policy and Regulation (or Lack Thereof)

The effectiveness and challenges of policy and regulation in managing LEO congestion and RFI are debated, with skepticism about the ability of international consensus or enforcement to curb the problem.

  • "I don't see how policy is going to be able to mitigate much here. And of course the Chinese are under no obligation to listen to US policy makers. They might have their own debates domestically around this topic and they might be reasonable about the topic internationally even. But building international consensus; or even enforcing what little there is on that front could be challenging." - jillesvangurp
  • "When an individual transmits on a band they shouldn't the FCC issues a fine. When a company transmits on a band they shouldn't the FCC gives them the band." - willis936
  • "The source article is quite clear there's no regulatory violations here. ... The detected IEMR and UEMR are outside of the frequency bands protected for radio astronomy, but are at frequencies of great interest for key experiments for the SKA-Low facility, and at frequencies where RQZ protections at the SKA-Low site are in place;" - perihelions

Chinese Space Strategy and Military Implications

The discussion touches upon China's strategic approach to LEO constellations, viewing them as critical military capabilities and actively working to develop their own capabilities to match or surpass US efforts.

  • "These Chinese (correctly) view these satellite constellations as a key military capability, and have gone all-in on creating their own version. (I mean, I don't see how that's even debatable at that pointā€”having seen the influence of Starlink in Ukraine. Future conflicts will only amplify the gap between the have-nots)." - perihelions
  • "They haven't yet launched a large number (~120); they don't now have the launch volume for large-scale satellite constellations. Their race is to first catch up in launch capability. They have dozen private startupsā€”heavily subsidized and favored by the stateā€”in the race to build a viable, reusable launcher comparable to Falcon 9, that they would then use to launch Starlink-like constellations at the same cadence." - perihelions

Practical Mitigation and Adaptation

There's a pragmatic acknowledgement that a certain level of impact on Earth-based observations might be unavoidable, and that adaptation and practical measures may be more feasible than strict policy enforcement.

  • "A more practical approach might be accepting that earth based observations are inevitably going to suffer a bit as the number of satellites grows from thousands to tens of thousands and eventually well beyond that. Luckily we now are able to launch stuff into orbit a lot cheaper. Including astronomy related hardware. That's already happening of course." - jillesvangurp
  • "Once it's active Starlink will do just like they have for other radio telescopes, avoid transmitting while they're in the boresight and in general don't transmit toward the antenna. This is a well practiced interaction at this point with scientific agencies in multiple countries." - mlindner
  • "The only thing that they can't stop would be things like reflected unrelated ground communications off of the satellite, but that would be very weak." - mlindner