Here are the key themes from the Hacker News discussion:
The Specter of Government-Controlled Internet Access and Age Verification
A primary concern raised is that age verification systems, particularly those mandated by governments, could evolve into a mechanism for controlling and monitoring internet access. This is framed as a potential "gateway to government issued (via corporate proxy) internet usage permits." There's a deep-seated fear that this could erode online privacy and anonymity, forcing users to identify themselves for access to content and services.
"Age assurance will be the gateway to government issued(via corporate proxy) internet usage permits." - krunck
The Unhealthy Exposure of Minors to Explicit Content
A significant driver for the discussion around age verification is the perceived danger of minors accessing hardcore pornography and other explicit content online. Users express concern for the psychological well-being of children exposed to material they are not equipped to process.
"True, but I'm also not convinced that a ten year old being able to be face to face with hard-core BDSM and incest fetish porn within 40 seconds of opening a web browser is healthy." - api
"Porn is different now too. It's worse in a way. Like everything else it's subjected to a pressure to get "edgier" to maximize engagement. So today's porn is loaded with simulated incest, simulated rape, extreme BDSM, etc., things that young children are not equipped to properly contextualize." - api
The Technical Challenges and Privacy Trade-offs of Age Verification Systems
The discussion delves into the technical feasibility and the inherent privacy implications of implementing robust age verification. While some acknowledge the need to protect children, they are wary of the solutions, particularly those involving government-issued IDs or centralized control. The conversation highlights the difficulty of balancing privacy with safety, especially in an international and borderless internet.
"This post solves the privacy problem, which is strictly better than the status quo." - MatteoFrigo
"However, wallet+zk is strictly better than sending the plaintext MDOC to the relying party. There are no solutions in this space, only tradeoffs, and elected representatives have picked one tradeoff." - MatteoFrigo
"So it does require a "blessed" implementation, and I have to trust Google or Apple to handle my data? I cannot own the document myself and use an open-source client that I trust to provide the proof?" - coldpie
Alternative Solutions: Parental Responsibility and Enhanced Local Controls
Several participants suggest that the burden of protecting children online should primarily rest with parents. The idea of empowering parents with better tools, such as more dynamic web filters and educational resources, is proposed as an alternative to broad government mandates.
"The alternative is to let responsibility of the parents to install web filter to their kids, and let others live freely on the internet, without sharing their history or IDing them." - rvnx
"In reality, TikTok also has really traumatizing content, yet is engaging tons of kids and teenagers, and IDing won't solve that, but good parents can." - rvnx
"This is actually one place where AI could be useful, to do dynamic local content classification (instead of a blocklist), especially if integrated directly in Android / iPhone." - rvnx
Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZKPs) and Decentralized Identity
A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the technical aspects of Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZKPs) and their potential application in decentralized identity systems. Users explore how ZKPs can allow individuals to prove certain attributes (like age) without revealing other personal information. However, there's also skepticism about the complexity, the reliance on trusted hardware (like smartphones), and potential for misuse or "malicious wallets."
"So ZKP actually works?" - dcreater
"It's a very interesting solution that allows for multi-show unlinkability to be married to hardware binding using existing ECDSA hardware keys. It's not limited to age verification; it can be applied to arbitrary attributes." - Confiks
"My phone is closed-source and its software is provided by an ad company. I do not trust it to always behave in my interests." - coldpie
The Role of Technology, Industry, and Regulation
The conversation grapples with the roles of technology companies, the industry that produces explicit content, and governmental regulation in shaping the online landscape. There's a debate about whether self-policing by the industry is viable, the limitations of international enforcement, and the implications of technological choices made by governments and tech giants.
"I don't like this but don't have another solution other than the porn industry self-policing which isn't promising." - api
"Governments around the world, especially in Europe, have legislated the solution, and the solution they have picked is a privacy nightmare." - MatteoFrigo
The Evolution of Online Content and its Impact
Some participants observe that online content, particularly pornography, has become more extreme and "edgier" over time to maximize engagement. This evolution raises concerns about how such content impacts users, especially younger ones who may lack the context to process it appropriately.
"Porn is different now too. It's worse in a way. Like everything else it's subjected to a pressure to get "edgier" to maximize engagement. So today's porn is loaded with simulated incest, simulated rape, extreme BDSM, etc., things that young children are not equipped to properly contextualize." - api
The "Deadness" of the Internet and Uniqueness Guarantees
A tangential but present theme relates to the perceived decline in the uniqueness or authenticity of online interactions, with a mention of "uniqueness guarantees" as a potential benefit of new systems. This suggests a broader concern about online identity and the integrity of digital spaces.
"And maybe also uniquiness guarantees, so that people can finally stop debating whether the internet is "dead"?" - perching_aix