This discussion analyzes the concepts of "buyer-pull" and "seller-push" sales strategies, alongside general perspectives on sales practices, marketing, and Hacker News moderation.
Title and Moderation Policies
A primary point of contention early in the discussion was the original title of the article, "The Physics of Sales," which many users felt was inaccurate and misleading. This led to a discussion about Hacker News's title change policy.
- croemer initiated the debate, stating, "There's no reason to put Physics in the title. There's zero Physics in the article."
- The moderator, dang, confirmed the title change, noting, "That's a more representative title, so let's use it instead. Thanks!"
- lurk2 questioned the change, referencing the guidelines: "Has this policy been relaxed recently? I never liked it as I find a lot of submissions can be unintentionally misleading when the original title is used."
- croemer clarified the rationale, saying, "In this case the title is misleading so the policy still applies."
- dang later reaffirmed the policy's stability: "The policy is as stable as fossils in granite. It definitely hasn't changed."
Theories of Sales: Buyer-Pull vs. Seller-Push
The core of the discussion revolved around the article's central themes of buyer-pull and seller-push sales. Users explored the nuances, effectiveness, and practical application of these strategies, often contrasting them with personal experiences.
- Many users found the distinction between attracting customers who already have a need (buyer-pull) and actively persuading them (seller-push) to be a useful framework.
- carbonguy observed, "The article details the seller-push (i.e. bad) theory, but doesn't go very far with the buyer-pull - presumably this is where one would get value out of the coaching sessions offered at the bottom of the piece? The dichotomy seems real but hard to actually do anything with if you're in sales."
- taneq elaborated on buyer-pull, suggesting ways to increase awareness ethically: "Make more people aware of the product (in a non-pushy way) so they can choose to buy it" through methods like sponsoring stunts or associating with celebrities.
- kukkeliskuu emphasized empathy in buyer-pull: "I believe... that while all three (buyer-pull, seller-push, Cialdini-style mentioned in a comment below) can work, the best result comes from buyer-pull when you have empathy for the customer."
- CityOfThrowaway highlighted active disqualification as a sign of true buyer-pull: "One of the ways you know if you're really practicing this is if you actively disqualify potential customers after the first call."
- thrav, while describing their team as buyer-pull, acknowledged the necessity of seller-push tactics: "I challenge my customers and attempt to convince them they have the wrong approach to achieve X all the time. Attaching to buyers pain is the only way youâll ever get anything meaningful done."
The Nature of Sales and Salespeople
Several comments delved into the perception of sales as a profession and the behavior of sales professionals, with some expressing negative sentiments.
- soanvig voiced a strong dislike for salespeople: "I hate sales people. This blogpost describes sales strategy as obvious as it is annoying, just like described seller-push. Written in a fashion of trying to sell me something." They later elaborated, saying, "all the sales people I met were exactly kind of people I hate, which made me hate sales entirely. There is something special about them: fake smile, gestures etc even in simple face2face conversations."
- halfcat humorously responded to soanvig's critique: "I see what youâre doing. Going after that anti-sales dollar. Thatâs a good market. Very smart."
- smackeyacky offered a pragmatic defense of sales: "Whether you like it or not, somebody selling keeps most of us in a job. The simple truth is that most people need some kind of push to get them to make a decision."
- soanvig countered by describing the competitive necessity of sales as a "toxic" but realistic situation: "Unfortunately my company needs sales, because other companies have sales. That's a nuclear weapon situation."
Effectiveness and Practical Challenges in Sales
Users shared personal anecdotes and debated the practical implementation and effectiveness of different sales approaches, particularly in the context of modern business and technology.
- TedHerman suggested useful background resources, including "Outcome-Driven Innovation and Christensen's 'Jobs to be Done' theory" and "Integrity Selling for the 21st Century."
- webdevver cited Cialdini as a preferred sales theorist, describing it as "treating the customer as something which can lead to money coming out of it if you supply the right verbal and visual stimulus." lurk2 reacted to this with a stark, "Unironically demonic."
- Many users recounted negative sales experiences, often involving aggressive or unresponsive salespeople.
- jampa described being contacted by a vendor who "called my CTO multiple times, all at awkward times, like during his lunch. When he didn't pick up, they started calling HIS WIFE."
- atoav shared a similar experience where a salesperson "always called during lunch hours (three times)... didn't have the substance... had no idea how we (public sector) have to buy things... wanted me to make an exception."
- dustincoates detailed a frustrating lack of follow-up: "No response for a week... No response for another week... So I sent their CEO a message on LinkedIn. Hey, I really want to buy, let's talk. No response for another week (and four months later). So I gave up."
- boznz related a personal story about self-publishing without marketing, drawing a parallel to the need for promotion in sales: "This is how I learnt why marketing and promotion (and I guess luck) are everything and without being an influencer or spending money to get it noticed the algorithm will forever ignore you."
- lukestevens argued against requiring hard data for basic sales principles: "The point is simply that you're going to have a better time doing sales if your supply matches some pre-existing demand. You don't need a quantitative study to understand why that may well be the case."
- nextworddev expressed that the article's theories felt "out of touch," stating, "The actual driver of sales esp in AI and enterprise tech in general has nothing to do with these academic theories."
- ungreased0675 felt the article was unhelpful due to a lack of practical guidance: "This is not a very helpful post, because it doesnât provide many clues on how to do buyer-pull sales."
- dazc summarized good marketing as "selling stuff that people want to buy," and that those who prosper otherwise are either "incredibly persistent at playing a numbers game or are doing something sketchy."
Sales Incentives and Compensation
A short but pointed exchange touched upon sales incentives and their potential misalignments with long-term business goals.
- jagged-chisel questioned practices that incentivize short-term gains: "Thatâs antithetical to 'this periodâs bonus.' Who cares if it dies in three months when the bonus for that three months end up in the salesmanâs pocket?"
- hedora agreed, stating, "Sales incentives need to match business incentives or youâre completely screwed."
- AbrahamParangi defended structured compensation: "Thatâs not how it works, you structure the comp such that the sales person doesnât get paid out in this case."
- jagged-chisel pressed on the fairness and retention implications of such structures.
The Role of Pain and Needs in Sales
The discussion also homed in on the significance of identifying and addressing customer pain points.
- thrav stated, "Attaching to buyers pain is the only way youâll ever get anything meaningful done. Identifying and building the pain and knowing you have the solution is how you create urgency."
- atoav qualified this, emphasizing the necessity of truly providing a solution: "Yes. Under the one precondition that you can actually provide a solution. Your customer might know that pain better than you do and they may sometimes know the solution space better than you do."