The ROI of Exercise

This Hacker News discussion explores various facets of exercise, from the subjective experience of pain and soreness to the broader societal and personal impacts of physical activity. The conversation touches on the correlation between exercise and well-being, the practicalities of incorporating fitness into daily life, and the accessibility of different sports.

Exercise and the Nature of Pain/Soreness

A central theme is the distinction between beneficial soreness and detrimental pain, and how exercise can alleviate existing discomfort. Many users shared personal anecdotes of exercise, particularly strength training, resolving chronic pain.

• Soreness as a Signal vs. Detriment: There's a debate on whether soreness is an inherent byproduct of beneficial exercise or a sign of overexertion. Some argue that soreness indicates muscles are being worked and that consistency can reduce soreness over time.

  • "My muscles get sore all the time from exercise, but it's not painful. That soreness just tells me I'm probably going to be a little bit stronger because of the exercise I just did." - kelnos
  • "Soreness isn't ideal. It won't make you stronger. Actually, it might make your recovery slower." - ruslan_sure
  • "Isn't soreness basically guaranteed to some degree if you've done enough work to actually build strength?" - fercircularbuf
  • "Not really. If you're eating/sleeping well and training consistently it's completely normal to not feel soreness (that is, excluding the immediate discomfort that rapidly subsides). I can't speak for all forms of exercise, but certainly it's normal when lifting weights, even to failure." - hatefulmoron
  • "If folks are regularly sore and their goals are not some lofty races or even higher and further down the progression path, they are doing it wrong." - jajko

• Exercise Alleviating Chronic Pain: Several participants reported that incorporating exercise, especially strength training and core work, has eliminated or significantly reduced pre-existing chronic pain.

  • "Anecdotally, weight training eliminated my chronic shoulder and hip pains from sitting at a desk." - user68858788
  • "From personal experience strength training has been key to recovering from injuries (caused by doing stupid things, not exercise itself)." - donalhunt
  • "I’m not complaining about lower back pain because my fitness activity has rid me of it." - m_fayer
  • "But I think the author is talking about less pain in a different way. For example, I threw out my lower back 25 years ago in college, and it's never been the same since. But doing core exercises and strengthening the muscles around that area means much less chance of pain doing regular day-to-day activities." - kelnos
  • "Also picking up heavy shit (weights - squats and deadlifts) is the only thing that resolved lower back pain (from sitting all day)." - cpursley
  • "I’m in the same exact boat with deadlifts helping my back pain from my desk job." - j_bum
  • "Physical activity increases lifespan primarily by lowering the likelihood of falling and breaking your hip. If you break your hip, your life expectancy is dramatically reduced. If that's your goal, just train your legs!" - ruslan_sure

• The "Broader" Benefit of Reduced Pain: Beyond specific muscle soreness, exercise is credited with improving overall bodily function and reducing everyday aches and pains associated with inactivity.

  • "And overall definitely less pain or more like 0 pain, ie back from weak core is pretty typical. Another one are knees, but to train knees around some already-damaged tissues is more tricky, but definitely worth it." - jajko
  • "You don't know you have problems with X if you aren't using X. If you do nothing for 20 years and then go for a 20km walk - you'll be in pain. But it's the 20 years that caused it, not the 20 km." - ajuc

Exercise as a Lifestyle and Investment

The discussion highlights exercise as a long-term investment in health and well-being, with significant personal benefits that extend beyond physical strength.

• Exercise as a "No-Brainer" Tradeoff: Many users view the effort required for exercise as overwhelmingly outweighed by its positive impacts on quality of life.

  • "The tradeoff is really a no-brainer in my case, and I don’t think my case is so unique." - m_fayer
  • "What's the fitness ROI from table tennis or badminton? Even pickleball tends to be less exercise than standard singles tennis." - lapcat
  • "There’s no point in nitpicking on this post. There’s an outsized return on exercise and it’s measurable. People don’t get — especially young people — that exercise is like eating, sleeping, and pooping. Your body needs it in regular intervals otherwise its carefully balanced system goes out of whack." - mehulashah
  • "The mental toughness, discipline, and higher energy levels that come with exercise are more important to me than physical appearance or living longer, and at this point almost anything else in life." - almost_usual

• Commitment and Consistency Key: The importance of regular exercise and proper technique is emphasized for maximizing benefits and avoiding injury.

  • "There are three things you must do: 1. good technique: lift with the right muscles, run at the right cadence & target heart rate. 2. listen to your body when it needs less or more load. 3. treat recovery as equally important as exercise itself." - cadamsdotcom
  • "Consistency is key." - brightball

• Mental and Emotional Benefits: Beyond physical health, exercise is frequently cited for its positive effects on mental clarity, stress management, and overall mood.

  • "The mental boost it provides. It's like a healthy drug. There are no negative side effects, and it's highly praised by society." - ruslan_sure
  • "I guarantee no incident or colleague will trigger a stress response. You will feel as cool as a cucumber and when an urgent issue does come up you will handle it with absolute mental clarity. That afternoon drowsiness will also not hit you at all, counterintuitive right?" - almost_usual
  • "It was fun and engaging enough to keep me coming back without feeling that I was doing a boring chore, and nearly every game has you moving, with the exception of the flying and driving sims." - chaostheory

• Long-Term Health and Longevity: The discussion touches on how exercise contributes to long-term health, preventing age-related declines and reducing the risk of serious conditions.

  • "Atherosclerosis generally starts when a person is young and worsens with age. Almost all people are affected to some degree by the age of 65. It is the number one cause of death and disability in developed countries." - heresie-dabord (quoting from Wikipedia)
  • "The people I know who work out are always complaining about their muscles and joints." - donatj
  • "As you age, you will lose lean muscle and bone density. But you do have some control in maintaining a healthy level of strength for your elder years." - lazarus01

Accessibility and Practicality of Exercise

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around how accessible different forms of exercise are, the societal and planning factors that influence participation, and the debate on whether certain sports are "expensive."

• The Tennis Debate: Cost vs. Culture: The premise that tennis is a longevity-enhancing sport leads to a lengthy discussion about its accessibility and perceived cost. Some users argue that tennis is culturally inaccessible or has a high skill floor, not necessarily that it's expensive.

  • "There has to be some incredible correlation between having the time and money to play tennis “a few times per week” and being significantly wealthier than the average person. And being wealthy is clearly the healthiest thing you can do." - koolba
  • "Since I've been a child, living in multiple countries across Europe and Asia, there's always been either free or cheap tennis courts near me. It's more likely that the demographic who play tennis tends to be wealthy, rather than the sport itself being expensive." - esperent
  • "Tennis is very difficult though. One of the highest barrier to entry sports skill-wise. Non-athletic adult people can't step onto a tennis court and consistently get the ball back to you, even if you hit it to them." - impossiblefork
  • "The Williams sisters started playing tennis in Compton. Tennis is cheap, but not so culturally accessible." - flatb

• Urban Planning and Exercise Opportunities: Users discuss how the built environment impacts opportunities for physical activity, with a critique of urban sprawl that necessitates driving and limits spontaneous movement.

  • "Another downside of the incorrect build environment (poor city planning) is that Americans simply don't have built-in ways to move their bodies." - cpursley
  • "I think the catch is, Americans have to spend so much time driving for ADLs (activities of daily living) that there is no time to walk over to the local court (if there is one, usually there is not). This is due to the sprawl Ponzi scheme (which spreads everything out)." - cpursley
  • "Bad design is why driving is the only logical choice" - CalRobert

• Time Management and Exercise Routines: The practicality of fitting exercise into busy schedules is addressed, with some users sharing extreme morning routines and others discussing how to make exercise engaging.

  • "Wake up at 4:30am and go for a run. You’re already accomplishing more at that point in the day than most wealthy people who are comfortably laying in bed." - almost_usual
  • "Don't wake up at 430 unless you went to bed early. A full night of sleep is crucially important." - seeEllArr
  • "If you're disciplined enough to put something in your calendar and do it over a period of months, without someone breathing down your neck to do so, whether you feel like doing it or not, then you are likely able to apply that effort in other areas of life." - throwaway22032
  • "What's the secret? About that, what hours people that wake up at 4.30 am go to bed? If they're so conscious about their well being I'd assume at least 8 hours of sleep, so maybe they go to bed at... 8~9 pm?" - aeve890

• Alternatives and Engagement: The discussion explores alternative exercise methods, particularly active video games and the importance of finding enjoyable activities.

  • "What's the fitness ROI from table tennis or badminton? Even pickleball tends to be less exercise than standard singles tennis." - lapcat
  • "That’s why people are gravitating towards Pickleball. It has a lower barrier to entry" - firesteelrain
  • "I can’t recommend standalone, wireless VR enough. It was fun and engaging enough to keep me coming back without feeling that I was doing a boring chore, and nearly every game has you moving..." - chaostheory
  • "You may want to find some activities you enjoy while doing them." - speedgoose