Touching the back wall of the Apple store

Here's a summary of the themes from the Hacker News discussion:

The "Luxury" of Apple Products: Branding vs. Intrinsic Value

A central theme revolves around whether Apple products are genuinely "luxury" items or merely well-marketed, high-margin doodads. There's a debate about whether the perceived value comes from actual utility, craftsmanship, or marketing prowess.

• "We were fascinated with the Apple store in the mall because it was essentially an interactive luxury goods store where they'd let you actually grasp all the luxury goods with your teenager hands." - bigyabai
• "The secret being, of course, that they're not actually luxury goods. Like many things at the mall, it's a high-margin doodad sold to people in the proverbial impulse aisle of life." - bigyabai
• "I think the American shopping mall is one of the things that helped me contextualize Apple's brand identity. ... It's the marketing that people respond to, not the value of a good." - bigyabai
• "Well, a Rolex has extremely high utility too. It's just that it has much less utility than a digital watch you can buy for $23 from Casio. The purpose of spending the other $59,477 ... is just that you can say you did. Apple products are similar. They have high utility that is nevertheless not as high as competing products that are much cheaper. All of the value is coming from the luxury branding." - thaumasiotes
• "The same can’t be said for a Rolex where the much cheaper options are better in every way other than flexing." - Gigachad
• "If you're against the idea of selling things that are cheap to make at high prices by relying on branding, you might not want to call Cartier or Rolex products 'genuinely valuable'. Jewelry is not fundamentally expensive." - thaumasiotes
• "Apple stuff has always been expensive, yes, but it's not 'luxury'. You get what you pay for. Apple products are the best in their category, despite the surprisingly organized hate machine that has existed forever." - LeoPanthera
• "I still run the theory that Apple has actors on staff to just “be cool at the Apple Store”. I once went into the local store during daytime in summer (my lunch break) to pick up an order. There was a very attractive young woman dancing next to the headphones seemingly testing out a pair of AirPod Max. And the rest of the store was also filled with strangely attractive persons." - larusso

The Utility of Smartphones: Essential Tool vs. Attention Vendor

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the utility of smartphones, particularly the iPhone. Some argue they are incredibly useful inventions, essential for modern life, while others contend that their software and notification systems are designed to capture attention for profit, diminishing their practical utility.

• "I largely agree with you, but I think one of Apple’s secret sauces (and they aren’t the only one) is that while their products are to some marketed as luxury items, they are in fact coupled with extremely high utility which is a somewhat new concept, in my view." - ericmay
• "The iPhone or your equivalent Android device truly is one of the most useful inventions humanity has ever created, especially for the era that we currently exist in." - ericmay
• "Smartphone hardware is almost completely useless because of the software. At this point it's pretty obvious that the potential (but unrealizable) utility is just more of the luxury illusion they're selling." - msgodel
• "Firstly it's all very intentionally coupled together. There are strict rules around how the UI and notifications are used specifically so that they can sell your attention." - msgodel
• "Secondly I think the only thing I really miss that's particular to smartphones is the map. Everything else is either a dumb gimmick or actually bad and all of it is to just get you're attention so they can sell it." - msgodel
• "In my pocket, I have a wallet, timer, alarm clock, calculator, telephone, atlas, directory, camera, stock broker, flashlight, tape measure, television, music collection, encyclopedia, transit time table, library, notepad, and translator. How are these utilities an illusion?" - rekenaut
• "The few among those things that even reliably function are covered in ads and defects to the degree that you're better off without them. The illusion is that you're getting a computer and not a collection of knickknacks and appliances." - msgodel
• "Almost none of those things have ads on the iPhone. All of them function reliably." - Gigachad
• "I regularly notice bugs when using iOS Mail; one that springs to mind would display one email's body with the header info from another email, it seems to have recently been fixed but was easily reproducible for weeks if not months." - bacon_waffle
• "Someone is deluded, and it's either all of the people using these apps despite being worse off due to doing so... or it's you. (And we're talking about actual utility apps, not something that you could dismiss as a dopamine trap.)" - tgsovlerkhgsel

The Changing Apple Store Experience

Several users discuss their experiences with Apple Stores, noting a shift from a more personalized, browse-friendly environment to one that is often crowded and requires more effort to get assistance, at least in some locations.

• "I remember the first time I went into an Apple Store. ... She beamed and said “Of course, that’s totally understandable. In fact it takes on average 3 visits to an Apple Store before making a purchase”. It was the smartest, nicest, most low key way of saying don’t feel pressure…you’ll be coming back, and then you’ll buy the machine you’ve always wanted." - JSR_FDED
• "The experience has definitely changed, mainly because of how crowded most Apple stores get. While all the devices are still in the open there is no way employees can offer a personalized experience to every shopper and wanderer. You have to now make a reservation for that." - paxys
• "As recently as I've been in an apple store, the goods were out for people to touch." - analog31
• "Getting rid of the physical Genius Bar and physical specific checkout locations was the worst decision they ever made. Now people are just kind of randomly clumped around and there's no clear delineation between staff who are already busy and staff who can immediately take questions." - crooked-v
• "Walked into the store, waited 30 minutes for one of their 'friendly, professional staff' to come up & help me, making eye contact, etc. Eventually I had to walk up to one of them standing there and tell them I wanted to buy something." - fennecfoxy
• "I can’t remember the last time I went into an Apple Store and didn’t have to actively hunt for someone to help me make a purchase." - danpalmer
• "If your store requires keen customers to chase around after salespeople in order to buy something, it's doing something wrong." - oneeyedpigeon
• "Apple Store employees are definitely trained better than the average shop, but they are far from luxury." - danpalmer

The Unfulfilled Promise of Physical Keyboards and User Interface Design

The discussion touches upon the decline of physical keyboards for mobile devices and the broader impact of UI design choices, particularly around touchscreens and animation.

• "I think it is the lack of a non-touch keyboard, not a social problem. I have an Android phone with a physical keyboard and it is a totally different mindset when you can 'check in' and communicate with the device/through the device without constantly checking/fixing the touchscreen/dictation errors." - leakycap
• "Yes you can from accessibility settings, but it breaks a bunch of things." - sheiyei (referring to disabling UI animations)
• "Iphones are sluggish by design in so many ways, that I would lose my mind using one for my personal life. Scrolling on an iPhone is a bafflingly terrible experience, because they limit the speed so much you can't move around at a reasonable speed." - sheiyei
• "I specifically recall getting some new Samsungs at work two years ago, so I got one to play with for a little. I was shocked by how janky scrolling felt. Just going through the android settings screen, there were 'hiccups' and there was a clear lag between my finger moving and the screen moving." - vladvasiliu

Nostalgia and the Evolution of Personal Audio Devices

A recurring theme involves reminiscing about early MP3 players and comparing them to modern devices like the iPod. There's a sentiment that while newer devices offer more features, older ones sometimes possessed a unique charm, better audio quality, or a more compelling user experience.

• "The early iPods had really good DACs. Do some reading up on them." - jonah
• "I don't mean in a 'vinyl is better' sense... I mean, everyone I've demo'd this to has looked at me with big eyes when they put the iPod on and listen to the same song vs. the same headphones plugged into a modern phone." - leakycap
• "The iPod might be able to drive high-impedance headphones better than a phone too, since the phone is pretty limited there." - astrange
• "My first MP3 player was the Creative MuVo. The storage part (actually, really everything but the battery holder) you could disconnect and use as a USB stick, which was also how you loaded music onto it." - zerocrates
• "The business model of the S1 is just wild. It mimics the PC clone industry of the 1990s." - computator
• "Best mp3 player I ever had was the SanDisk sansa clip. Just loaded music off an ad card and weight almost nothing. Worked great." - ch33zer
• "I started with a Zune, a bright green and brown one, then went to iPods. Like the author and their first Walmart MP3 player, my first MP3 player, my Zune, left a much bigger impression on me than all of my later iPods." - sandspar
• "iPod was probably a better product overall, but I think Zune had more character." - sandspar

Microsoft Stores vs. Apple Stores: A Tale of Two Retail Strategies

The discussion includes a comparative analysis of Microsoft's retail efforts versus Apple's, highlighting the differing approaches and their relative successes. Microsoft's stores are generally described as less successful and lacking the "vibe" that Apple cultivates.

• "Microsoft tried the model with its own chain of stores but failed pretty quickly." - paxys
• "Microsoft stores were abysmal. They felt like Best Buy without the convenience somehow." - dagmx
• "It’s just not as simple as making a store. The store has to provide the right vibe, and Microsoft don’t understand vibe." - dagmx
• "About a year after the Apple Store opened on Boylston Street in Boston, a Microsoft Store popped up across the street in the Prudential Center. ... Anyhoo, they shuttered pretty quickly" - NetOpWibby

The Elusive Nature of "Luxury" Service and Brand Experience

There's an ongoing debate about what constitutes true luxury service. While Apple aims for a certain brand experience, users have differing opinions on whether it achieves genuine luxury or simply an efficient transaction, contrasting it with experiences in high-end fashion retail.

• "I couldn't have looked more ready to buy without waving cash around. Apple Store employees are definitely trained better than the average shop, but they are far from luxury." - danpalmer
• "Some luxury brands will play hard to get, others will faw non over customers. Different people want different experiences." - hx8
• "This may be their thinking, but if so I feel that would be down to bad training. In my experience the Apple TV skews hard towards those who have a lot of Apple products." - danpalmer
• "It would be like going into a Burberry store and shopping for replacement buttons for your $3000 coat." - danpalmer
• "I remember walking into high end stores like Burberry in my early twenties, and being ignored except by security." - Larrikin