This discussion explores the historical and technical reasons behind the division of written and visual narratives into discrete units, such as chapters and television episodes. Multiple themes emerge, touching on the evolution of narrative structure, the influence of publishing formats, and the impact of advertising on media consumption.
The Victorian Novel and the "Naturalization" of Chapters
A core idea presented is the role of the Victorian novel in establishing the chapter as a standard, unobtrusive element of narrative structure. This perspective suggests that Victorian authors aimed to synchronize their fictional timelines with natural life rhythms, making chapters feel less like artificial divisions and more like organic pauses within the flow of the story.
- lqet posits: "It was the Victorian novel that made the chapter seem natural. Key to the reality effects of nineteenth-century British fiction is its synchronisation of novel time with the natural rhythms of life. As a result, novelistic chapters lose their theatrics, their posturing and posing, even those unstable amalgamations surveyed in Equiano and Goethe, and instead become regular and âtacitâ, receding into the background."
However, this perspective is immediately challenged by the reality of publishing formats during the same era.
- lqet also notes: "That may all be true. But many authors of that era (e.g. Dickens and Dostoevsky) published their work mainly in monthly installments. Chapters are then, exactly like TV show episodes, simply a technical necessity."
The Disruption of Narrative Flow by Advertising and Formatting
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how external factors, particularly advertising breaks and the resulting structural changes, can negatively impact the viewing experience of modern television. Participants lament the fragmentation of narratives into short segments designed around ad slots, even in contexts where ads are absent.
- ldmosquera expresses a strong dislike for this trend: "One thing I hate about modern TV shows is that they have been further sliced into ~5-10min sequences between ad breaks, and even if you watch them without ads, you get narratively unnecessary cliff hangers just before a break, complete with dramatic music and a closeup of some dramatic gesture, trivially resolved in the next 5 seconds after the break. You're constantly yanked out of the narrative in service of ads even if you never see them, which has disfigured the medium."
This issue is primarily associated with broadcast television, leading some to question the value of its current output.
- NoMoreNicksLeft states: "If it is on a broadcast tv network, it's not really worth watching."
This sentiment is debated, with others arguing that many acclaimed older broadcast shows still hold up, despite potentially suffering from similar formatting issues. The distinction between broadcast, cable, and streaming services becomes relevant here.
- red369 lists several classic broadcast shows: "Seinfeld, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Freaks and Geeks, Arrested Development, 30 Rock, Community, Schitt's Creek, The Office, The X-Files, various Star Trek series, Cheers" and questions the categorical dismissal of broadcast TV.
- thaumasiotes attempts to clarify the network/cable divide: "Almost all of those are broadcast shows. As far as I can tell, the divide is pretty straightforward: Cable: nudity Broadcast: everything else"
- crazygringo counters this, attributing the problematic formatting more to older broadcast models than current media: "That was the hallmark of old TV, on networks. Since the start of TV in the 50's. There are tons of modern TV shows that don't do anything you're talking about because they're made for streamers or paid TV without ads... I watch a lot of TV and haven't seen what you're talking about in many, many years."
- pests points out that even modern streaming shows produced for a broadcast model can retain remnants of ad-break conditioning: "Star Trek Discovery and Strange New Worlds, for example, are not as dramatic as described above but you can always spot where the adbreak would have been. Cut to black and a re-establishing shot at the least. These are modern shows like you describe but still the TV medium has some influence."
Serialized Literature and the Precursors to Chapters
The concept of serialized publication, predating and coexisting with the Victorian novel, is brought up as a significant historical influence on narrative structure. The practice of releasing works in installments, as seen with monthly or weekly publications, necessitated divisions that would later inform chapter formatting.
- lqet initially linked chapters to Victorian novels but later acknowledged the role of serialized publishing: "many authors of that era (e.g. Dickens and Dostoevsky) published their work mainly in monthly installments. Chapters are then, exactly like TV show episodes, simply a technical necessity."
- novosel highlights this connection further: "And hence, Dickensian invention of cliffhanger at the end of installment. Narrative push and pull that you can feel when you read it in a book."
The discussion of Isaac Asimov's Foundation series serves as a prime example of literature that originated as discrete short stories later compiled into a cohesive novel.
- bdunks expresses surprise at this realization: "In the preface to the 4th or 5th book... he discussed how the originals parts of the trilogy were published as a set of short stories in a SciFi publication over 8 years, and later compiled into the books. I was astonished. Perhaps everyone else already knew this. But such a clear narrative through line to be written in discrete short stories. Very impressive."
- soneca clarifies the distinction: "But Asimovâs short stories werenât a serialized novel from the start. They were individual short stories that he later combined with small changes to form novels. Itâs different from what Dickens, Dumas, and Verne did."
- andrewflnr finds this information helpful in understanding their initial reaction to Foundation: "Weird. I bounced off Foundation immediately because it felt like a series of short stories instead of a novel... I'm kind of kicking myself for not predicting that it actually did start that way."
The practice of serialization is traced even further back, with mentions of authors like Dumas and Verne.
- hinkley asks: "Didnât Verne also serialize his stories? This has been going on for a long long time but for sure Clark and Asimov have books that were serials in periodicals. Edit: looked it up. Dickens and Dumas preceded Jules Verne in serials being turned into novels."
The Function and Purpose of Chapters and Divisions
Beyond historical necessity, participants explore the intrinsic value and purpose of narrative divisions like chapters for both writers and readers. While some argue that chapters are deliberately crafted for the reading experience, others find them to be more driven by the writer's need for structure or a reader's preference for pauses.
- galaxyLogic suggests a mutual benefit: "I think it is simply because the writer needs to take a pause afteer writing some amount. And the reader also prefers to take pause. Having chapters aligns the interests of both readers and the writer."
- andrewflnr disagrees with this utilitarian view of writerly pauses: "Nah, as a writer who talks to other writers with wildly different processes, I don't think that's how it works for anyone. Time spent writing is almost unrelated to visible time markers in the text. It's not a big deal to stop writing in the middle of a scene or stop one and start another in the same session... Scene and chapter boundaries are something we specifically think about in their own right to optimize the reading experience."
- dotancohen finds chapters essential for personal organization: "I tried not writing in chapters, but I find that the chapters helped me compartmentalize different times and places and specific subjects. It may be that I'm simply used to chapters from reading other books, but no matter what the book I find that some sort of compartmentalization is beneficial and often necessary."
The absence of chapters is also discussed, with its potential to create a more immersive and intense reading experience.
- madaxe_again notes the effect of eschewing chapters: "If you eschew chapters, it can have a pretty distinctive effect on your prose. Prominent examples that come to mind are Finneganâs Wake, The Waves, and On The Road, and all make for an intense read. The absence of pause gives you no place to put it down, you are ensnared within the inescapable flow."
Historical Precedents and Evolution of Textual Division
The concept of dividing texts into smaller units is not limited to modern novels or television. The discussion touches upon ancient practices, such as the chaptering of religious texts, and the philosophical debates surrounding these divisions.
- throw245433 mentions Journey to the West as an example of a book with chapters from a non-Western tradition, suggesting the practice is widespread and not solely a Western invention.
- lopsotronic brings up early modern intellectuals railing against Biblical chaptering, citing Robert Boyle and John Locke: "Boyle complained of its âinconvenient Distinctionâ, which âhath sometimes Severâd Matters that should have been left Unitedâ; Locke for his part despaired that the system of chapter-and-verse left scripture âso chopâd and mincâd [âŚ] so broken and dividedâ..."
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF defends the utility of verses for deep-linking to specific passages: "I like the verses. How else could I deep-link to a total banger line like Matthew 25:40?"
This historical perspective extends to the very mechanics of text formatting and technological constraints.
- ImaCake links text size and division to technological limitations: "Ancient texts by the length and cost of parchment, and anything before the printing press by how easy it is to copy. Maybe its only now that we are less constrained by technology that we have to really focus on our mental faculties as the limiting factor for writing."
Critiques of Academic Rigor and Language Skills
A side thread emerges critiquing the methodology and language proficiency of an academic involved in the discussion, suggesting a lack of depth or accuracy in their analysis of textual divisions.
- Telemakhos points out potential errors in the Latin and Greek terminology used by an unnamed individual, stating: "The Latin quoted is wrong... and the Greek 'kephalaia' is plural while the Latin terms with it are singular. 'Titlos' is the Greek way of writing the Latin 'titulus,' which is a weird thing to have in a list like that... This comes across as sloppy work from someone in an English department who didn't have the language skills to work outside English but decided to try anyway."
- thaumasiotes engages with this critique by seeking more information about the source text, while also questioning the necessity of extensive language skills for the specific observation being made: "Can you point to something with the text of the tablet? ... I'm not sure why 'language skills' are necessary for this piece - these questions are fundamentally about what the words inscribed on a document are, not what those words mean."